Girlfriend Asks about Self Defense

[Evolutionary]

Hi New Poster here...

Girlfriend and I were talking about what to do if we had a bag guy come into our house.

Scenario is this; she is alone, has a couple of nice knives that could help the situation (Kobun Tanto, SOG Flash II, etc) but she also has available a G17 with Remington Golden Saber HPJ loaded to go bang.

Let's say the baddy just wants a few dollars and is beginning to move closer to GF. She gets nervous and backs into our room (not a big place we live in) and goes for the G17 (knows how to use it) and by this time the baddy is the bedroom door. I chime in here and say just point the gun at the ground in front of baddy (with finger out of bang area for now) and tell him you have a gun and would like him to leave.

BG decides to come closer and not leave, pulls a knife, crowbar some other menacing item. I chime in here and tell my GF it is time to do the unthinkable and take careful aim and pull trigger. This is where she says NO WAY, I do not want to go to jail.

She would be justified self defense here ya? Doesn't kill baddy just hurts him so she can run and call LE.

Lot's of time 'splaining herself at the police office but she wouldn't be in trouble would she?

Thanks!
Evo

[Blue]

Don't shoot to hurt, if it's a justified shoot it'll just cost her more money when the guy sues her.

[Dangerous1]

So someone is in your home, up close and personal, with a weapon? I think a couple bullets in his chest will solve the problem. Without a weapon, he wouldn't come closer to her unless he was trying to take the weapon away. Again, a couple of bullets will teach him.

[UziDoesIt]

I would add that when armed, she needs to yell real loud (hopefully so others can hear and call police, as well as be witnesses if all else fails) "I have a gun, stay back or I WILL shoot". If he comes closer than 5 feet - practice so she can visualize where 5 feet is - then she needs to make decisive action.

Usually criminals will leave at the sight or sound of a gun, and most likely deadly force will not be necessary.

[MIKE_the_MILITANT]

I'm thinking 5 feet is way too close for me, I think 10 feet would be the min.

[Acorn556]

Last time I checked dead men tell no tales. Female shooting an unknown man in her house is usually self defense and when they see his fingerprints on the knife/crowbar/toaster/tennis racket they will put 2 and 2 together.

[pingpong]

Like they say, better to be judged by 12 than carried by 6.

[Librarian]

See also this thread - http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/s...d.php?t=172170

[Napalm Bulldog]

Hi New Poster here...

Girlfriend and I were talking about what to do if we had a bag guy come into our house.

Well if he has a bag he is probably hungry give him a couple cans of soup! The send him on his way.

[Dr Rockso]

Ever hear of the 21 foot rule? It takes a bad guy armed with a knife or other weapon about 2 seconds (starting from a full stop) to cover 21 feet, which is about the same amount of time it takes to draw from an openly-carried holster. Police are trained that within that 21 foot radius a bad guy with a knife is just as lethal as one with a gun.

If someone is in your home, especially if they're armed, you'd be wise to treat them as an existential threat and act accordingly. California law (quoted below) says that there is a legal presumption that if you use deadly force in your home you were justified in doing so. Doesn't mean you'll be left entirely alone by the judicial system, but the deck is stacked HEAVILY in your favor unless you say something really stupid. And none of this "shoot to wound" BS either, if you have to shoot you shoot at center of mass. The goal isn't to kill, but center of mass is just where you're most likely to score a hit that will stop the threat (especially with a couple quarts of adrenaline pumping through your system rendering your motor skills somewhat lacking).

Any person using force intended or likely to cause death or great bodily injury within his or her residence shall be presumed to have held a reasonable fear of imminent peril of death or great bodily injury to self, family, or a member of the household when that force is used against another person, not a member of the family or household, who unlawfully and forcibly enters or has unlawfully and forcibly entered the residence and the person using the force knew or had reason to believe that an unlawful and forcible entry had occurred. Great bodily injury means a significant or substantial physical injury.

[audihenry]

Aim for the head, make sure the shot is from the front.

Good luck.

[RolinThundr]

Like they say, better to be judged by 12 than carried by 6.

+1
Have your GF go for the gun as soon as a BG tries to get in or gains access to your home. If she grabs the gun and verbally warns the BG and he still approaches, shoot him- center mass, weapon or no weapon. If he ignores a warning that she is armed- even if he appears not to be armed- it is safe, IMO, to assume that he is willing to risk both of their lives in an attempt to assault/disarm her. If he displays any type of weapon or anything that can be used as a weapon- gun, knife, tire iron, racket, crowbar, wet towel- then don't bother with a warning, just shoot. Leave the "shoot to wound" bull to the movies, in reality you are more likely to miss and lose any advantage you had. Keep in mind that most instances of self-defense shootings take place at distances of only 7-10', no room for errors like a wounding shot that misses, or doesn't stop him, or a shot at the floor- which if you are on a 2nd/3rd floor of an apartment building could endanger your downstairs neighbors. As mentioned before, the mere presence of a gun is often sufficient to scare an intruder off- I think its about a 90% success rate in bringing an end to a situation without a shot being fired.

[BillCA]

Hi New Poster here...

Girlfriend and I were talking about what to do if we had a bag guy come into our house.

Scenario is this; she is alone, has a couple of nice knives that could help the situation ... but she also has available a G17 with Remington Golden Saber HPJ loaded to go bang.

Let's say the baddy just wants a few dollars and is beginning to move closer to GF. She gets nervous and backs into our room (not a big place we live in) and goes for the G17 (knows how to use it) and by this time the baddy is the bedroom door. I chime in here and say just point the gun at the ground in front of baddy (with finger out of bang area for now) and tell him you have a gun and would like him to leave.

She would be justified self defense here ya? Doesn't kill baddy just hurts him so she can run and call LE.

Thanks!
Evo

One would of course have to ask the question of how the BG got into the house in the first place. Was the door unlocked? Was it standing open after bringing in the groceries?

197. Homicide is also justifiable when committed by any person in any of the following cases:
1. When resisting any attempt to:

murder any person,
or to commit a felony,
or to do some great bodily injury upon any person; or,

2. When committed in defense of habitation, property, or person, against one who manifestly intends or endeavors, by violence or surprise, to commit a felony, or against one who manifestly intends and endeavors, in a violent, riotous or tumultuous manner, to enter the habitation of another for the purpose of offering violence to any person therein; or,...

But you can't just shoot someone for being inside without some credible threat.

198. A bare fear of the commission of any of the offenses mentioned in subdivisions 2 and 3 of Section 197, to prevent which homicide may be lawfully committed, is not sufficient to justify it. But the circumstances must be sufficient to excite the fears of a reasonable person, and the party killing must have acted under the influence of such fears alone.

Bare fear is essentially the fear of the person without a rational basis. That is, finding the person standing in the entryway looking around doesn't allow you to shoot him. His mere approach to you doesn't either.

However, if she says "stay away from me", while retreating and he comes forward, a threat is implied. If his hands are raised as if to grab or he utters something indicative of violence, a threat or to instill fear, then you have something you can articulate as causing the fear. And yes, an "evil, despotic look" on his face may qualify.

If she reaches the bedroom and he's just outside the open bedroom door when she points the gun at him, I'd suggest she fire several times or until he drops.

Once he is down, she trains the gun on him while dialing 911. She should never take her eyes off of him, nor approach within 3 feet of his grasping distance. When the 911 operator asks "where is the gun now?" the response should be "In my hand, pointed at him." When the operator says to put the gun down, politely tell him/her "Once I hear police arrive, I will put it down and move away." Other attempts to disarm her over the phone should get a polite "No" or "No, not yet." Once the essentials have been taken by 911 and police are enroute, do not talk to the 911 operator unless the situation changes.

If he attempts to get up, stay out of reach and warn him to stay down. If he continues to get up, put him down.

To be justified, your GF will have to articulate something specific that indicated to her that he was going to injure her, commit some felony or kill her. If he's armed with any kind of weapon, go directly for the G17 and fire. Do not pass Go, do not stop to collect $200.

Lastly, she should tell police she's too upset to answer any questions, that she's scared (both likely true) and that she'd like to talk to her lawyer. That should prevent them from asking detailed questions for the time being.

A person suddenly inside your home does not always rise to the level of a felony threat. The DA will argue the person was merely confused about an address, looking for assistance, lost, etc. The DA can argue his approach to you may also be "innocent" if the person is mute and attempting to communicate.
There is a terrible urge to tell the dispatcher more than is necessary. In fact, most people will tell them "Someone broke in and I shot him" which sums it up, but also admits to the shooting. Saying he broke in, chased me and I defended myself, he's shot does not admit to the shooting. But dispatchers are trained to get more detail to pass to responding police. Resist the urge to disclose details or information about the incident until consulting a lawyer.

[whobob]

Deadly force is okay to prevent great bodily injury. If he's there just for properties then you cannot use deadly force.

[yellowfin]

Treat just like any other predatory creature. A threat to her being constitutes forfeiture of human (i.e. don't shoot) status for the threat. She would shoot a snake or a coyote, wouldn't she?