Shooting A Human Being...

[tomd1584]

my dad has done it....twice. My uncle, (his brother) has done it once. Killing another human being has got to be difficult. But when its you or them, hopefully training prevails. Guess it comes with being a police officer.

[elSquid]

In a way they are. Not so much that they turn normal people into killers but it does have an effect on us.

Grossman wrote:

The result is ever more homemade pseudo-sociopaths who kill reflexively and show no remorse. Our kids are learning to kill and learning to like it. The most remarkable example is in Paducah, Kentucky the school killer fired eight shots, getting eight hits, on eight different milling, scrambling, screaming kids. Five of them were head shots (Grossman & DeGaetano, 1999).

Where did he get this phenomenal skill? Well, there is a $130-million law suit against the video game manufacturers in that case, working itself through the appeals system, claiming that the violent video games, the murder simulators, gave that mass murderer the skill and the will to kill.

I personally don't believe that mouse clicks translates to proficiency with a firearm, so while I would agree that 'sensitization' is probably an issue at some degree, I personally think that Grossman is hyping in order to get TV time, sell books, and generate revenue from speaking engagements.

So when I see his name I think "opportunist, selling fear."



-- Michael

[Bigballaizm]

I shot my cousin in the knee cap with a BB gun cuz he took the last beer out the ice chest. Made him cry AND I got the beer. I would dew it again.

You gotz issues bro!!!

[HUTCH 7.62]

Don't know what i'd do but hopefully no one see's me when I have to go into survival mode.

[dominic]

My AIT drill sgt used to say: "No thinking, just do it!" Seemed to work. Because when I had to do it, I just did it.

[chris]

i have had to shoot at someone that was in Iraq in 05. at that moment training took over and there was no hesitation what so ever. i did not have to kill or wound him just to get him to stop. again shooting at a person for the first time can be hard for some. after years of training in the Army it was not hard to shoot at all. that's just me though i guess i have no issues about shooting at him nor to talk about it.

[Stormfeather]

One of the hardest things you may ever have to do is move your finger 1/8" and take a human life. That applies whether you're facing someone in your own dark hallway, flying an F4 at 19,000 feet and releasing weapons or shooting a 20mm at a boat from the side of a Naval ship. In a split second your whole being has this conversation;

Heart to brain! What're you doing? Are you mad?
Brain to heart - Hostile at 11 o'clock, weapons hot, engaging.
Heart to brain! Wait! Wait, are you sure about this?
Brain to heart - Yes, attack is imminent. Target acquired.
Heart to brain! Don't be rash here! Don't make a mistake!
Brain to heart - Hostile action confirmed. No error. Fox 1!
Heart to brain! Augh! I hope you're right or you'll get us all killed!
Brain to heart - If I'm wrong we'll all die too. Target neutralized.

It's natural when you've been conditioned to respect and cherish life and you do. It's natural when you believe each person should be treated with compassion and some understanding.

Just be sure of your facts. Just be sure you are not shooting from unjustified "bare fear". Do every reasonable thing you can think of to resolve the situation without bloodshed.

However violence often happens swiftly and without warning. Or you're put into the position where your survival options are limted. You may have to operate on your best, immediate judgement with limited facts.

Then you'll have to justify your actions. Not only to others, but to yourself over and over. Sometimes it helps to talk to a stress counselor so you can talk yourself through it. Talking does help the flashbacks and nightmares go away too.

My thoughts exactly. As Bill has said, afterwards, talk to a professional, stress counselor, religious counsel, its well worth it.

[fuegoslow]

On Killing

Read "On Killing" by LTC Grossman. Everyone is affected differently.

My Utah CCW Instructor, Jim Amentler, recommends this great book. Anyone with a CCW or not may very well be faced with the trauma of taking a persons life in defense of another.

[QuarterBoreGunner]

It sucks.

If your serious about defending your life and the lives of your loved ones around you, get training. Good training. 'Cause it really *really* does work. Your body and muscles will know what to do.

[Timberwolf]

Only thing i'll say on this subject...pray you never have to do it.

Do everything you can to avoid it.

But if it is you/your loved ones or him...

It better be him.

Amen brother - words to live by

[aermotor]

Good point so far everyone, thanks for the insight. I'm pretty sure when it came down to it, I'd do what needed to be done.

As someone mentioned the first time they did was in Iraq. That definitely seems a lot easier to stomach (to me) when dealing with people you know want to harm you have the means to and you're right, you don't think you just do. But it seems a lot different doing it at home when you're unprepared for it.

I don't think I'll ever be in that situation, but if it comes to it, I'll be ready, hopefully with a firearm close by.

[Greg-Dawg]

But what if you end up shooting and killing a 12 year old wanna be gangster who was pressured into stealing to be accepted?

[locosway]

But what if you end up shooting and killing a 12 year old wanna be gangster who was pressured into stealing to be accepted?

Intent is the key here. If this young adult was keen enough to enter some ones property with the intent on causing harm (i.e. he was armed) then all bets are off. Guns, knifes, bombs, fires... None of those care who uses them for harmful purposes. They don't care what age, race, or gender the person is. They're all equally dangerous depending on the nature of their intended use.

Now, could you wrestle a knife away from a kid? Perhaps... Would you get cut? It's very likely... Is it worth getting cut to save a troubled teen? Perhaps, but that's your call to make in only a few seconds.

[Greg-Dawg]

Intent is the key here. If this young adult was keen enough to enter some ones property with the intent on causing harm (i.e. he was armed) then all bets are off.

Killing children would be devestating.

[locosway]

Killing children would be devestating.

It would be, and I can see a lot of counseling in the future for whoever would be confronted with such a situation. However, what about my kids? Should they be deprived of having a father, or even worse, what if that 12 year old killed one of my kids during a struggle?

Here's a story. When my wife was 9 years old her best friend was murdered (also 9) by a girl who was 16 or 17. The murderer was a friend of the girls older sister. She was on drugs and was trying to steal from the house. The girl not knowing what was about to happen, let her in to use the restroom. She was stabbed too many times to count with a parring knife. The mother came home shortly after to find her daughter dead in the bathroom. There was no open coffin because of the extensive wounds.

Now, granted she was older than 12 like in your scenario, I still think it holds true. Intent is everything, and one will have to make a decision on who's life is more important. Personally, my kids are good and are my priority. If someone is coming around looking for trouble then they'll get it no matter their age.

On a side note. Behind me is an alley and we have a tall wall. People have tried coming over before but our dog has scared them away. I'm always worried that's where someone will try and come in to the house because it's pretty dark and private in the backyard. I know if it happens it will be a teen looking for money. It's just something you need to consider.