1919a4 Status

[MFortie]

What's the consensus on the status of a 1919a4 (semi of course) in California these days?

AW? Plain ole long gun? Other? Or?

Does the pistol grip vs. spade grips make any difference?

TIA

[ar15barrels]

Until you figure out how to make it have a fixed magazine that can not accept more than 10 rounds, it's an AW.

It's centerfire and semi-auto and it's not a pistol, a rifle or a shotgun.
It accepts a detachable ammunition feeding device that can accept more than 10 rounds.

[anyracoon]

When I still lived in Cali I just linked up 10 rounds with a starter tab,

[MFortie]

OK. Interesting.

I've seen a couple of a6 versions for sale that state 'CA Legal' -- how are those legal and the a4 isn't?

Or is the a6 not truly legal either (non AW)?

The only difference I see is the 'shoulder thingie that goes up'...

I really don't know the platform differences other than pics I've seen.

[ar15barrels]

When I still lived in Cali I just linked up 10 rounds with a starter tab,

What would stop you from breaking the belt and inserting additional links and cartridges while the belt was in the gun?

A fixed magazine setup on a beltfed would require you to build some sort of box so that no more than a 10 round belt would fit into the gun.
The box would not be able to be loaded without "disassembly of the action" of the firearm.

[ar15barrels]

OK. Interesting.

I've seen a couple of a6 versions for sale that state 'CA Legal' -- how are those legal and the a4 isn't?

Or is the a6 not truly legal either (non AW)?

The only difference I see is the 'shoulder thingie that goes up'...

I really don't know the platform differences other than pics I've seen.

1919A6 has a stock so it's a rifle instead of an "other" like an 1919A4.
Therefore, you can make it a featureless rifle by removing all the features that are prohibited on rifles:

(1) A semiautomatic, centerfire rifle that does not have a fixed magazine but has any one of the following:
(A) A pistol grip that protrudes conspicuously beneath the action of the weapon.
(B) A thumbhole stock.
(C) A folding or telescoping stock.
(D) A grenade launcher or flare launcher.
(E) A flash suppressor.
(F) A forward pistol grip.
(2) A semiautomatic, centerfire rifle that has a fixed magazine with the capacity to accept more than 10 rounds.

Centerfire semi-auto Firearms that are NOT a rifle, pistol or shotgun have a more inclusive list of features so the A4 can not be made to comply without converting it to have a fixed magazine.

(9) A semiautomatic centerfire firearm that is not a rifle, pistol, or shotgun, that does not have a fixed magazine, but
that has any one of the following:
(A) A pistol grip that protrudes conspicuously beneath the action of the weapon.
(B) A thumbhole stock.
(C) A folding or telescoping stock.
(D) A grenade launcher or flare launcher.
(E) A flash suppressor.
(F) A forward pistol grip.
(G) A threaded barrel, capable of accepting a flash suppressor, forward handgrip, or silencer.
(H) A second handgrip.
(I) A shroud that is attached to, or partially or completely encircles, the barrel that allows the bearer to fire the
weapon without burning the bearer?s hand, except a slide that encloses the barrel.
(J) The capacity to accept a detachable magazine at some location outside of the pistol grip.

There's currently no featureless solution for "other" 1919 based firearms which would still allow them to function.

[Beelzy]

I thought one workaround was to add spade grips to the gun? Does that still fly?

[DRH]

Most spade grips have the trigger mechanism encircling around the buffer tube so they would not accept the A6 stock addition required to not to be an other assault weapon.

https://www.apexgunparts.com/browning-1919a6-stock-clamp-steel-nos.html

[ar15barrels]

I thought one workaround was to add spade grips to the gun? Does that still fly?

The pistol grip is not the problem.
The problem is the ammunition feeding into the gun at some point outside the pistol grip.

So if you remove the pistol grip or if you simply put a grip wrap on the pistol grip so it's not considered a pistol grip, that covers 9(A) but you still have the problem of 9(J) because an ammunition feed belt is considered a magazine and it's not possible to limit the size of a belt to 10 rounds without building an enclosure which would only fit 10 rounds AND is only accessible through disassembly of the action.

[OlderThanDirt]

SARCO makes 10 round cloth belts.

[SkyHawk]

I thought one workaround was to add spade grips to the gun? Does that still fly?

Does not make a difference. Without a stock, it is a Title 1 "other" and subject to our new stupid "other" AW laws. And there is no way to make a featureless "other"

If it has a stock attached like the A6, then it suddenly becomes a rifle which can be made featureless.

Also, a previous CA AG already said in writing that the A4 grip does not meet the definition of pistol grip for CA AW laws. So the grip is not the issue, it is the "other" status that is the problem and the only way that goes away is with a stock.

[ar15barrels]

SARCO makes 10 round cloth belts.

How do you keep the belt from coming out of the gun while shooting the gun?
If the belt were to leave the gun while the gun is assembled, then the gun accepts a detachable magazine again.

[OlderThanDirt]

How do you keep the belt from coming out of the gun while shooting the gun?
If the belt were to leave the gun while the gun is assembled, then the gun accepts a detachable magazine again.

A snap cap as round 10 would keep the belt in the gun. Then you have to run to the bathroom, lock the door and secretly load a new mini-belt. Making grunting and farting noises should keep LE away long enough to secretly add a new belt.

Alternatively, an A6 stock is a far easier solution, especially for those that bought linked ammo during Freedom Week. Most A4 configurations are pretty much featureless at that point (fixed stock, no flash hider and a non-pistol grip grip thingy) and you get a 1919A6fugly rifle.

[ar15barrels]

A snap cap as round 10 would keep the belt in the gun.
Then you have to run to the bathroom, lock the door and secretly load a new mini-belt.
Making grunting and farting noises should keep LE away long enough to secretly add a new belt.

Alternatively, an A6 stock is a far easier solution, especially for those that bought linked ammo during Freedom Week.
Most A4 configurations are pretty much featureless at that point (fixed stock, no flash hider and a non-pistol grip grip thingy) and you get a 1919A6fugly rifle.

What happens if you cycle the action to get the snap cap out of the chamber?
Does the belt then come out of the gun?
The belt needs to stay in the gun so that no other belt can be installed without disassembly of the action AND the action has to be setup in some way so that no more than a 10 round belt can ever be installed in order for the gun to be considered having a "fixed magazine" and not accept more than 10 rounds.

All 1919's accept their belts (a belt is a magazine per the legal description) outside of the pistol grip so there is no way to make them featureless in an "other" configuration.

[OlderThanDirt]

Have you ever fired a 1919a4 with the top cover open?