Flat range vs scenario based training

[jonnyt16]

I think most people like to pretend they are operators and wish they were. They fall into that money pit to learn a skill set that will honestly never be used in any situation outside of a shooting range.

I wouldn't say most people. I mean, if someone wants to spend his money on "tactical" training and gear and learn some shooting skills along the way while having fun doesn't necessarily make them a wannabe operator.

I've been to a few classes. I've done 3-Gun and 2-Gun. And the group of guys I shoot with now like to set up run & gun courses with a mix of IPSC targets and steel. We wear kit to facilitate our sidearm, magazines, etc. To me its about staying active and fit, keeping my shooting skills sharp, and having fun competing. Not once have I ever mistaken myself for a Seal team member.

I think we have to remember that the youtube/instagram/whatever community does NOT represent the majority of the shooting community. At least in my experience.

[19K]

I wouldn't say most people. I mean, if someone wants to spend his money on "tactical" training and gear and learn some shooting skills along the way while having fun doesn't necessarily make them a wannabe operator.

I've been to a few classes. I've done 3-Gun and 2-Gun. And the group of guys I shoot with now like to set up run & gun courses with a mix of IPSC targets and steel. We wear kit to facilitate our sidearm, magazines, etc. To me its about staying active and fit, keeping my shooting skills sharp, and having fun competing. Not once have I ever mistaken myself for a Seal team member.

I think we have to remember that the youtube/instagram/whatever community does NOT represent the majority of the shooting community. At least in my experience.

I agree. I misspoke. There are people who do want to be wannabe operators but they do not constitute a majority of them.

I do subscribe to garandthumb and Brandon Herrera but not to learn but because I find them entertaining.

[hambam105]

How many former, or continuing students, have returned to their Instructors and discussed
with them in detail how the situation unfolded?

How many times has the Instructor changed or reinforced his doctrine do to these after action reports?

Always ask, "Where did you learn that?''

Beware the person who convinces you how this future occurrence is going to happen to you. And remember,
if you are going to get advanced notice or an early invitation to this event don't forget to bring your timer.

[tanks]

Most important is mastery of your weapon. None of the "tactics" will work if you miss.

Also, you can get a bay at most outdoor ranges (e.g. Raahauge's in Southern CA) set up targets and practice draws, shooting on the move and just basic fundamentals at various distances.

[SG29736]

Protohyp
"There is one thing that I can't stress to practice more than anything and thats shooting strong hand or support hand only. Imagine trying to shoot like you think you do on the range with a baby or kids or wife in your arms screaming and yelling."

Yesterday at our clubs USPSA match we shot a classifier with strong hand, weak hand. 3 targets. First string at 15 yards draw and shoot two rounds on each target freestyle, mandatory reload and shoot 2 on each target strong hand only. 2nd string at 10 yards 2 on each target freestyle, reload 2 on each target weakhand only. I got all my hits in about 20 seconds total for both strings. Not great but pretty good.

[protohyp]

Protohyp
"There is one thing that I can't stress to practice more than anything and thats shooting strong hand or support hand only. Imagine trying to shoot like you think you do on the range with a baby or kids or wife in your arms screaming and yelling."

Yesterday at our clubs USPSA match we shot a classifier with strong hand, weak hand. 3 targets. First string at 15 yards draw and shoot two rounds on each target freestyle, mandatory reload and shoot 2 on each target strong hand only. 2nd string at 10 yards 2 on each target freestyle, reload 2 on each target weakhand only. I got all my hits in about 20 seconds total for both strings. Not great but pretty good.

Such an invaluable skill to have. one that should almost be primary to both hands on the firearm. I personally practice with dominant and non dominant eye as well. I have become just as quick with either eye in target acquisition. One can never assume your dominant eye will be functioning properly in a stress situation i.e. blood, shattered glass or wood from ricochet etc. Also I've studied how much of your head is exposed shooting around cover when your non dominant eye is leading around the corner. You might as well be standing out in the open. Is it a low event situation? who knows but being an all around competent shooter gives you the best advantage. something not too many people would even attempt.

[IVC]

No matter how elaborate your range is, if it doesn't shoot back you're not training real combat. This is similar to IDPA believing it's somehow realistic, while also believing USPSA is not.

Separate core skills from tactics from real combat.

You need to train core skills and be proficient, you need to learn tactics and know how to operate in a team of like-minded and similarly trained individuals, and you need to experience combat to know what it looks like (I haven't, so take it with a grain of salt). Core skills mostly remain and are transferrable across disciplines. Tactics change over time, based on threat and based on the team you're in. It's something that you adapt to and learn for specific situation.

As long as you understand the differences, you should have no problem with any training scars since you're doing different things at different times.

[dC0m]

My wife and I train on flat ranges for the past few years to master the firearm/shooting techniques. I take it up a notch and do dry-fire CQB around the house to prepare to for SD scenarios.

To each their own, I don't go full kit on the range or at home, but I will occasionally throw on the plates on BLM lands just to get comfortable with it in an SHTF scenario.

[VictorFranko]

Flat range is great if you have access to a private range where you can advance on your target, fire standing, advancing, kneeling, sitting, prone and transition from rifle to sidearm.
Much more fun and loads more beneficial than sitting in a chair at a table and ringing a bell for me.

Scenario shooting like IDPA adds fun, camaraderie and competition to training, all positives in my book.
As pointed out it's not real-world combat training, but the day I have to engage a BG or a group of BG's, it's more likely going to mimic scenario shooting than it is going to mimic standing behind a bench at an indoor range trying to put a round in the bullseye ring.

[SaltyGod]

So, I went to the range this weekend with some buddies to work off some turkey, I hope you guys did the same!
One thing I noticed is that while working reloads, they would always do it from cover (i.e. our blue barrels). For the vets out there, is this how you train? Must everything be done from cover?
As always, thanks again!

[HKAllTheThings]

So, I went to the range this weekend with some buddies to work off some turkey, I hope you guys did the same!
One thing I noticed is that while working reloads, they would always do it from cover (i.e. our blue barrels). For the vets out there, is this how you train? Must everything be done from cover?
As always, thanks again!

Speaking only from my experience, we isolate the fundamentals from scenario training. So, on flat range days, you'd find one of us working trigger drills one day, reloads the next, transitions the next, etc. We did not do any of this from cover and usually slick, without kit.
From an operational standpoint, using cover is situational, if it's available to you and it allows you to move against your opponent.
The best cover is fast and accurate fire, though.

[protohyp]

So, I went to the range this weekend with some buddies to work off some turkey, I hope you guys did the same!
One thing I noticed is that while working reloads, they would always do it from cover (i.e. our blue barrels). For the vets out there, is this how you train? Must everything be done from cover?
As always, thanks again!