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[otteray]

http://wiki.calgunsfoundation.org/index.php?title=Defining_loaded_in_California

[9Cal_OC]

Hanko....thank you! So a partially inserted mag IS NOT a loaded weapon - I agree. It's clearly not "attached" if it falls out. But does the law see it that way??

[M1NM]

Some cars had a handle to open the trunk that could be locked or left open.
The law says no ammo in the gun (even if the chamber is empty). It doesn't say a loaded mag has to be fully inserted - even just the tip means there is ammo in the gun.
Gun, ammo, mags can all be in the same container which does not have to be locked if in the locked trunk.

[Sailormilan2]

[Oceanbob]

[otteray]

Otteray you hit the motherload. Thank you - geat intel. From what I'm reading it seems that my glock WOULD NOT be considered "loaded" since the weapon cannot be fired.

Read it again. I give up.

[enorbit3]

Bro just do what you want since you're obviously not picking up what everyones putting down.

[ar15barrels]

Interesting, the language says the firearm is loaded if a loaded magazine is"attached" to the firearm.
My argument is that it's not "attached" since it would easily fallout.
Is that a loser??
If it's legal to carry loaded mags in the same container, it seems they're just as accessible as one partially inserted.

If the police picked up your gun with 2 fingers by the end of the pistol grip, gravity will NOT cause the mag to fall out as gravity would be keeping the mag in the gun.
If a single round is within the confines of the gun, the gun is loaded.
It does not matter if you would have to push the magazine into the gun further to latch and cycle the slide before you could fire it.
The ammo is within the gun.
The firearm is loaded because ammunition is attached.

Feel free to test this yourself though.
We could use another court case on this.

[ar15barrels]

My trunk can be accessed via the back seat. Anyone sitting in the back seat can pull one side or the other of the back seat and access the trunk.

A trunk does not qualify as a locked container if it can be accessed from within the vehicle.

[C Neely]

Pursuant to California Penal Code section 16850, the term "locked container" means a secure container that is fully enclosed and locked by a padlock, key lock, combination lock, or similar locking device. This includes the trunk of a motor vehicle, but does not include the utility or glove compartment.
My god. That is the dumbest answer ever posted on Calguns ever.
No.

show me the legal definition for "secure". they insist on playing this game, fair play really.

[ar15barrels]

show me the legal definition for "secure". they insist on playing this game, fair play really.

I don't know if there is one, but I would define a "secure container" as something that you can not forcibly get into without tools.

So a ziploc bag with a cable lock certainly fails that as you can easily rip the bag apart.
However, a nylon pistol case with a padlock through the zipper pulls would be tough to get apart without the assistance of tools.
That makes it "secure" in my mind.

[Sailormilan2]

The ammo must be attached to the weapon in a position ready to fire. i.e. Magazine in the mag well, and ready to go.
From the link:
People v. Clark(1996) 45 Cal.App.4th 1147 , 53 Cal.Rptr.2d 99 specifically limited 12031(g) by holding that in order to be “loaded” a firearm must have ammunition “placed into a position from which it can be fired”. The case rested on the fact that a shotgun is not loaded when shotgun shells were attached to a shotgun inside a buttstock shell carrier.

So, a loaded magazine attached to the buttstock is not in a "position ready to fire", is the firearm is not "loaded". IIRC, People v Clarke stems from a case involving a "Snake Charmer" single shot .410 shotgun that had some rounds attached to the buttstock,

Some years back I remember a Bakersfield Police Officer stating that People v Clarke referred to shotguns only, and not handguns. Unfortunately, I don't know if that was what they were being taught, or just what he assumed.

Several years ago, in the Department i worked for, the Policy and Procedure manual had to be revised because there were 2 Deputies who chose to carry their guns with a loaded magazine in their Glocks, but no round in the chamber. Just in case someone got their gun away from them. While this fit the definition of a loaded firearm per the Penal Code, the Department was much less than impressed, and revised the Policy and Procedure manual to say that there had to be a round in the chamber. Deputies were morons.

[Librarian]

show me the legal definition for "secure". they insist on playing this game, fair play really.

Isn't one.

See http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/s...3&postcount=22

[otteray]

How about these California Criminal Jury Instructions?

" ... a firearm is loaded if there is an unexpended cartridge or shell in the firing chamber or in either a magazine or clip attached to the firearm..."
[A firearm does not need to be in working order if it was designed to shoot and appears capable of shooting."
Having served on a couple of trials that were dragged out for weeks over seemingly simple terms; I can see how 12 jurors could parse this around for a whole day or two, lol. Good luck.

[200Apples]

As said before, loaded mag cannot be inserted.

Not even the tip.