Question on transporting in an SUV vs a car

[jeremiah12]

When I visit my parents, they live within 1,000 feet of a school. My long guns (all bolt action) and unloaded are in soft case but not locked, in the rear cargo area of my suv, out of sight. My suv is parked in their driveway. Is this legal?

Read Quiet's post, #9. He already answered this. No it is not legal. While driving in a GFSZ, the long guns must be in a locked trunk or a locked container. Put a lock on those soft cases or buy soft cases that have the zippers that are designed to run a lock through them.

If you look at a GFSZ map for any city, you will find that it covers about 75% of the area of the average city. It includes all schools, public and private. Churches that use their facilities for schools, including pre-schools. Counties run their own school system through the County Office of Education. The main group of students they cover are those that have been expelled from their local school districts for any reason. In CA, an expelled student still has a right to an education so they are sent to the school of last resort, the County Office of Education. Many do like my county does, operate small schools with between 10 and 30 students and they are placed in neighborhoods and strip malls and often are not easily identifiable as a school.

Many are using houses purchased in residential neighborhoods. For students that have other issues, they set up group homes/schools in these houses and since they are a public school first and operated by the country under control of the state, they are exempt from all local zoning laws.

So many of you might be living in a Federal GFSZ and not realize it. The city police are often aware of it.

I live a block from an elementary school so all my guns are in locked cases when I take them out of the house to load in my vehicle.

[jeremiah12]

Unless going through a school zone...and most people probably do without even knowing it. Most churches are school zones because they have on campus schools, preschools, day care, etc. Is a local cop going to bust you for a federal crime? Probably not, but why risk it. Just carry all firearms unloaded in a locked container or trunk.

CA also has their own GFSZ laws that follow the same definition of the federal law. So your local cop will bust you for violating the CA GFSZ law.

Now, with all the DAs letting criminals go now, the question because will the DA follow through? In my county, the answer is probably not. My wife reads the police blotter every day and they report all the arrests that take guns off the street and a few are charged with violating the GFSZ laws. Then you follow the criminal court online and find that most are never charged and if they are they are cited and released and they never make their court date. Many who do get a plea deal and the GFSZ violation is dropped as are the most serious charges and they get probation. The plea deal though requires the guns be destroyed, even when pleading to a misdemeanor transporting a unsecured firearm.

[Librarian]

CA also has their own GFSZ laws that follow the same definition of the federal law. So your local cop will bust you for violating the CA GFSZ law.

CA's GFSZ does not address long guns. See PC 626.9 and the wiki, http://wiki.calgunsfoundation.org/in...e_School_Zones

This, however

A PC 12050/26150 CCW allows permit holders to legally carry their listed handguns on both K-12 and college/university properties and campuses.

has been overtaken by subsequent law, and it is no longer legal for CCW holders to carry on K-12 or college/university campus.

Sorry; no longer have write access to the wiki, so cannot fix that.

[MyOdessa]

When I visit my parents, they live within 1,000 feet of a school. My long guns (all bolt action) and unloaded are in soft case but not locked, in the rear cargo area of my suv, out of sight. My suv is parked in their driveway. Is this legal?

School zone = locked container.

[SharedShots]

If you bothered to think, you would realize that California changes/updates gun laws pretty often...so a previous answer may no longer be valid; and you might also realize that it's a forum...asking questions and discussing things is the point.

What part of thinking says not to lock your guns in a case, unloaded? How hard can this be? It's making mountains out of molehills.

Case, lockable or can be locked. Gun inside case - unloaded. If ammo fits in the case, great. If not, why not in a lockable container? It has nothing to do with the laws changing or not, how can it not make sense to anyone?

Case in trunk if you have one, if not then hidden out of sight.

Questions and discussion is one thing, this is way beyond that. Its very simple stuff.

Would you put $1000 in cash on the front seat out in the open and drive around, maybe even park and go inside someone's house you are visiting and leave the money on the seat? Obviously, some have to think about it.

No doubt there are gun control mavens who read some of this stuff and come to the conclusion that since it takes enough discussion to figure out something so simple that they'll just get the law changed to make it really simple. Now what do you think that might look like?

[pacrat]

handguns locked case out if sight, longuns no requirement for locked case ca law. fed law all firearms in locked case within 1,000 feet of school. GFSZ

As Quiet noted; The bolded above only applies to unattended vehicle.

If you are IN the vehicle with the locked container. It can be sitting on your lap for all the law cares.

[fishn395]

I have been told mutliple times that the ammo in mags but not in the gun can NOT be in the same locked case AND legally transported without a CCW. I read Quiet's response and it seems that I have been misinformed. Unfortunately, it was by numerous off duty officers, a firearms instructor, and others.

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[RickD427]

I have been told mutliple times that the ammo in mags but not in the gun can NOT be in the same locked case AND legally transported without a CCW. I read Quiet's response and it seems that I have been misinformed. Unfortunately, it was by numerous off duty officers, a firearms instructor, and others.

Sent from my SM-G975U using Tapatalk

It's always good to ask for citations when folks make such assertions. There is a lot of bad information in circulation.

As a general rule, "Quiet" is quite correct. There is no law that requires the ammunition to be in a separate locked container.

But every rule has its exceptions(s) and this one is no different.

Some of the folks who believe that the ammunition must be in a separate locked container have formed that belief due to California's "Special Definition" of when a weapon is loaded.

Under California's "General Definition" of a weapon being loaded, the weapon is loaded when there are rounds contained in the weapon that can be fired through the ordinary manipulation of the weapons. Please see Penal Code section 16840(b) and the California Court of Appeal decision in People v Clark.

But California also has a very different "Special Definition" of when a weapon is loaded. Under the "Special Definition" a weapon is loaded if the firearm and ammunition are in the possession of the same person. The "Special Definition" applies to designated government buildings, portions of the city of Sacramento, Gun Shows, and where the firearm is possessed in conjunction with a felony. Please refer to Penal Code sections 16840(a), 27330, 25800, 171c, 171d, and 171e.

But it's also important to note that one cannot defeat application of the "Special Definition" simply by locking the ammunition up separately from the firearm. So long as both are accessible to the same person the special definition is gonna apply.

Please note the use of citations in this posting.

[Mongo68]

*Vehicle's locked toolbox = a locked fully enclosed container that is affixed to the bed of a truck or vehicle that does not contain a locked trunk. [PC 25150(d)(1)(B)]

So if I have a toolbox in the bed of my truck I have to lock in there? I usually have them in locked bags/ cases in the back seat.

[Gryff]

If you bothered to think, you would realize that California changes/updates gun laws pretty often...so a previous answer may no longer be valid; and you might also realize that it's a forum...asking questions and discussing things is the point.

Yeah, but it's important to criticize other people when they don't follow your rules for the Internet.

[fishn395]

It's always good to ask for citations when folks make such assertions. There is a lot of bad information in circulation.



As a general rule, "Quiet" is quite correct. There is no law that requires the ammunition to be in a separate locked container.



But every rule has its exceptions(s) and this one is no different.



Some of the folks who believe that the ammunition must be in a separate locked container have formed that belief due to California's "Special Definition" of when a weapon is loaded.



Under California's "General Definition" of a weapon being loaded, the weapon is loaded when there are rounds contained in the weapon that can be fired through the ordinary manipulation of the weapons. Please see Penal Code section 16840(b) and the California Court of Appeal decision in People v Clark.



But California also has a very different "Special Definition" of when a weapon is loaded. Under the "Special Definition" a weapon is loaded if the firearm and ammunition are in the possession of the same person. The "Special Definition" applies to designated government buildings, portions of the city of Sacramento, Gun Shows, and where the firearm is possessed in conjunction with a felony. Please refer to Penal Code sections 16840(a), 27330, 25800, 171c, 171d, and 171e.



But it's also important to note that one cannot defeat application of the "Special Definition" simply by locking the ammunition up separately from the firearm. So long as both are accessible to the same person the special definition is gonna apply.



Please note the use of citations in this posting.

Thank you for all of that.
It can be confusing...and probably why people default to just being overly cautious. Not that it is right. The laws are confusing (on purpose) and hoping an officer understands them if I get pulled over while transporting...I don't know.

[cz74]

The "General Definition" is very clear, not sure why people would be confused. I always load my pistol mags, no mags in the gun, together in a locked box.

[Librarian]

*Vehicle's locked toolbox = a locked fully enclosed container that is affixed to the bed of a truck or vehicle that does not contain a locked trunk. [PC 25150(d)(1)(B)]

So if I have a toolbox in the bed of my truck I have to lock in there? I usually have them in locked bags/ cases in the back seat.

No, no, someone already noted that's for leaving a handgun in the car/vehicle, not a general rule for transport.

25140.

(a) Except as otherwise provided in subdivision (b), a person shall, when leaving a handgun in an unattended vehicle, lock the handgun in the vehicle’s trunk, lock the handgun in a locked container and place the container out of plain view, lock the handgun in a locked container that is permanently affixed to the vehicle’s interior and not in plain view, or lock the handgun in a locked toolbox or utility box.

Typo in the original citation - no section 25150 exists in 2022.