Ammo PPT to FFL03+COE holders

[elm3c]

Hi, just wanted to clarify the sale of ammo in a private party purchase by an FFL03 and COE holder in California.

To my knowledge, California Penal Code 30312 is the only reference to an ammo PPT.

https://leginfo.legislature.ca.gov/faces/codes_displaySection.xhtml?lawCode=PEN&sectionNum=30312

Section a1 states: Commencing January 1, 2018, the sale of ammunition by any party shall be conducted by or processed through a licensed ammunition vendor.

Section a2 states: When neither party to an ammunition sale is a licensed ammunition vendor, the seller shall deliver the ammunition to a vendor to process the transaction.

Section b states: Commencing January 1, 2018, the sale, delivery, or transfer of ownership of ammunition by any party may only occur in a face-to-face transaction with the seller, deliverer, or transferor

Section c states: Subdivisions (a) and (b) shall not apply to the sale, delivery, or transfer of ammunition to any of the following:

Section c-6 is one of the exemptions in section c, for an FFL03+CA COE holder: A person who is licensed as a collector of firearms pursuant to Chapter 44 (commencing with Section 921) of Title 18 of the United States Code and the regulations issued pursuant thereto, whose licensed premises are within this state, and who has a current certificate of eligibility issued by the Department of Justice pursuant to Section 26710

So does this mean that if the buyer is a holder of an FFL03 and a CA COE, then they can purchase from any unlicensed seller of ammunition without needing to have the transaction processed by a licensed ammunition vendor?

Thanks all for your input!

[SkyHawk]

Yes, 03+COE can buy direct from anyone anywhere anytime, no other FFL involvement required

[Capybara]

Yes, 03+COE can buy direct from anyone anywhere anytime, no other FFL involvement required

IF you can navigate the gauntlet called CFARs to GET your COE. This is my fourth COE, had a lapse for a few years and so far, it's quite a challenge to actually go through the process.

Once you get the FFL03 and COE, ammo buying freedom!

[elm3c]

Thanks, @skyhawk and @Capybara! I actually already do have my FFL03 and COE.

Any concerns for the seller?

[sfe187]

Thanks, @skyhawk and @Capybara! I actually already do have my FFL03 and COE.

Any concerns for the seller?

No selling exemption for 03/coe holders, still only 500 per month.

[elm3c]

No selling exemption for 03/coe holders, still only 500 per month.

Thanks, @sfe187, that's helpful to know as well. But I meant whether there are any concerns for the seller in an ammo PPT transaction to a buyer who has the FFL03+COE.

[Preston-CLB]

As I understand things, a seller is limited to 500 rounds/month, unless they are a licensed ammunition vendor.
-P

[sfe187]

Thanks, @sfe187, that's helpful to know as well. But I meant whether there are any concerns for the seller in an ammo PPT transaction to a buyer who has the FFL03+COE.

What concerns do you have? (explain in detail or give example)

Are you worry about if that ammo turn up used in a crime? and it was traced back or the buyer said the ammo was from you, that kind of concern?

[elm3c]

What concerns do you have? (explain in detail or give example)

Are you worry about if that ammo turn up used in a crime? and it was traced back or the buyer said the ammo was from you, that kind of concern?

Sorry, the seller is just not clear that the California Penal Code 30312 allows someone to "sell" without going through a licensed ammunition dealer, if the buyer has an FFL03+COE.

My guess is that your scenario may be the possible concern. Perhaps, what does the seller need to do to confirm the buyer actually has a valid FFL03+COE, or is there any responsibility of the seller to verify if shown the paperwork?

To be clear, I have an FFL03+COE, and I'm trying to make the seller comfortable with selling to me without needing to go through a licensed ammunition dealer.

[sfe187]

I see. You can provide copy of the law to the seller. The reason 03/coe is exempt is due to credentials/background is already verified being the holder. If is not good enough for the seller, its his ammo he can sell which way he likes. Just like many CA sellers afraid to sell to 03/coe C&R rifles cash carry, instead want to go to an 01/FFL to do dros.

I personally don't know (if any) a way to call/verify 03 or COE. He can check by matching up your ID vs name on the 03 & COE.

Sometimes convincing seller or even regular 01/FFL on 03/coe exemptions are half the battle.

[elm3c]

I see. You can provide copy of the law to the seller. The reason 03/coe is exempt is due to credentials/background is already verified being the holder. If is not good enough for the seller, its his ammo he can sell which way he likes. Just like many CA sellers afraid to sell to 03/coe C&R rifles cash carry, instead want to go to an 01/FFL to do dros.

I personally don't know (if any) a way to call/verify 03 or COE. He can check by matching up your ID vs name on the 03 & COE.

Sometimes convincing seller or even regular 01/FFL on 03/coe exemptions are half the battle.

Thanks @sfe187, agree that the exemptions are difficult to explain, so I started this thread hoping to make it more transparent to all CalGunners, regarding ammo PPT's.

[morrcarr67]

Thanks @sfe187, agree that the exemptions are difficult to explain, so I started this thread hoping to make it more transparent to all CalGunners, regarding ammo PPT's.

Here you go [emoji1783]

http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=1560245

http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=1413768

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[edgerly779]

ffl 03 with coe cannot sell ammo.

[Capybara]

ffl 03 with coe cannot sell ammo.

Couldn't they sell to another FFL03/COE?

[SkyHawk]

Couldn't they sell to another FFL03/COE?

yes