Shotgun Length Law

[DailyEDC]

If you buy a standard length shotgun with 18" barrel and then you replace the barrel with a 14" but add a 4" muzzle brake and somehow make it permanently attached. Would that make your shotgun legal? Would using something like Red loctite be considered good enough to pass as permanent since it requires the use of heat to break lose? How does law enforcement inspect something like this to see if it's attached permanently, just a manual check by hand?

[9Cal_OC]

My guess is it would have to be welded to be considered permanent.

This

[M1NM]

My guess is it would have to be welded to be considered permanent.

100% correct. The feds even have a standard at what point the weld material melts at to eliminate common solder.
Pinned is also legal if the pin is welded - but shotgun barrels are too thin to make this practical.

[JonChimpo]

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[RickD427]

If you buy a standard length shotgun with 18" barrel and then you replace the barrel with a 14" but add a 4" muzzle brake and somehow make it permanently attached. Would that make your shotgun legal? Would using something like Red loctite be considered good enough to pass as permanent since it requires the use of heat to break lose? How does law enforcement inspect something like this to see if it's attached permanently, just a manual check by hand?

100% correct. The feds even have a standard at what point the weld material melts at to eliminate common solder.
Pinned is also legal if the pin is welded - but shotgun barrels are too thin to make this practical.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

The Locktight and Cold Weld solutions are not gonna work.

The NFA regs require "full fusion" welding or soldering at a temperature of at least 1100 degrees or by pinning with the head similarly welded over.

The Locktight isn't adequate for two reasons: 1) There ain't no fusion of the materials, and it comes off at temperatures less than 1100 degrees.

The various "Cold Welding" substances are nothing more than thickened epoxy. There is no "full fusion" of the materials as required.

[SkyHawk]

If you buy a standard length shotgun with 18" barrel and then you replace the barrel with a 14" but add a 4" muzzle brake and somehow make it permanently attached. Would that make your shotgun legal? Would using something like Red loctite be considered good enough to pass as permanent since it requires the use of heat to break lose? How does law enforcement inspect something like this to see if it's attached permanently, just a manual check by hand?

It has to be welded or brazed with high temp solder. Law enforcement will have it inspected by a lab or LE armorer after they seize it from you, if there is any question at all as to the legality.

If I wanted a "brake" on a shotgun, I would just have a 18" shotgun barrel magnaported or similar. Then you can still use screw in chokes if you want.

https://magnaport.com/sgun.html

https://www.brileygunsmithing.com/c-887-shotgun-barrel-porting.aspx

https://www.robrobertsgunworks.com/edm-porting

[Milsurp1]

[Snoopy47]

My understanding of welding is the welded material, barrel, and device being welded on all have to have the same melting point.

Meaning, to remove it would be getting it up to temp again would result in destroying the device and barrel.

[Quiet]

If you buy a standard length shotgun with 18" barrel and then you replace the barrel with a 14" but add a 4" muzzle brake and somehow make it permanently attached. Would that make your shotgun legal? Would using something like Red loctite be considered good enough to pass as permanent since it requires the use of heat to break lose? How does law enforcement inspect something like this to see if it's attached permanently, just a manual check by hand?

If the muzzle device is attached in a manner that does not meet the Federal/CA requirements, then it is automatically considered not permanently attached.

In addition, per CA DOJ BOF, if LE forensic techs can remove the muzzle device, then it is not permanently attached.

Which means, if it is attached in a manner that does not meet the Federal/CA requirements, then it can be confiscated and examined by lab techs to determine how it was attached and they will make a determination, which will cause the DA's Office to decide if they want to prosecute for an illegal SBR/SBS or not.


Per Federal and CA laws/regulations...

Permanent methods of attachment include full-fusion gas or electric steel-seam welding, high-temperature (1100o F) silver soldering, or blind pinning with the pin head welded over.

Barrels are measured by inserting a dowel rod into the barrel until the rod stops against the closed bolt or breech-face. The rod is then marked at the furthermost end of the barrel or permanently attached muzzle device, withdrawn from the barrel, and measured.

[9Cal_OC]

Quite the gamble for little benefit (that of a 14” barrel)

[ohsmily]

My understanding of welding is the welded material, barrel, and device being welded on all have to have the same melting point.

Meaning, to remove it would be getting it up to temp again would result in destroying the device and barrel.

Where/how did you develop this "understanding"?

[ar15barrels]

If you buy a standard length shotgun with 18" barrel and then you replace the barrel with a 14" but add a 4" muzzle brake and somehow make it permanently attached. Would that make your shotgun legal? Would using something like Red loctite be considered good enough to pass as permanent since it requires the use of heat to break lose? How does law enforcement inspect something like this to see if it's attached permanently, just a manual check by hand?

Law enforcement would typically follow the ATF guidelines for permanent attachment since the laws governing barrel length are federal in nature.

https://www.atf.gov/resource-center/docs/atf-p-5320-8pdf-0/download

See page 17 of the pdf file.

It needs to be welded as loctite is easily defeated.

[ar15barrels]

My understanding of welding is the welded material, barrel, and device being welded on all have to have the same melting point.

Meaning, to remove it would be getting it up to temp again would result in destroying the device and barrel.

The melting points don't need to be the same.
You just have to melt both sides to get them to blend if you are doing fusion welding.

I do some tig brazing where the brazing rod melts at 1900 degrees while the cast iron melts at 2200 degrees.
If you move along quickly, you can braze without melting the base metal but if you go slowly, the puddle color changes as you are blending the cast iron into the brazing metal that forms the puddle.

[JonChimpo]

The Locktight and Cold Weld solutions are not gonna work.

The NFA regs require "full fusion" welding or soldering at a temperature of at least 1100 degrees or by pinning with the head similarly welded over.

The Locktight isn't adequate for two reasons: 1) There ain't no fusion of the materials, and it comes off at temperatures less than 1100 degrees.

The various "Cold Welding" substances are nothing more than thickened epoxy. There is no "full fusion" of the materials as required.

This Cold weld identifies as a fusion weld. You need to respect science. Bigot.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[ysr_racer]

JB Weld ?