Hypothetically speaking...

[pacrat]

Maybe I am overthinking it.

If he did not register it at all, and somehow the police got ahold of it, is it illegal to find a gun in your house and keep it and use it without doing any sort of DROS/registration?

Actually, I know of no statute that requires registration of abandoned property in ones own home. Even if it is a firearm.

Such laws that mandate certain actions be taken. Are worded with specific narrow focus.

[SanDiego619]

Actually, I know of no statute that requires registration of abandoned property in ones own home. Even if it is a firearm.

Such laws that mandate certain actions be taken. Are worded with specific narrow focus.

I suppose the only issue might be if it were stolen they might try to pin it on the person who had the gun.

[DB>]

Hypothetically -
1) Double check the title on the property (presuming hypothetical you purchased it). Guns may belong to a prior owner several transactions back, depending on the age of the guns. I'd try to determine the timing of when they were "secreted away", as well as the possible identity of who did so (and why).

2) There's always a chance the guns are stolen or otherwise involved in some criminal activity (see above re prior owners/history). Not sure how you'd go about checking that, but it could be a concern.

It's hard to imagine why a firearm owner would effectively "abandon" them - doesn't seem like something one would forget, but perhaps an untimely death or illness and no surviving family that knew of "the stash"?

Generally real estate law says they go with the house if you bought the property (like the people in AZ that found a bag of rusty guns in their backyard...). This is entirely different from finding them on public property or while salvaging a sunken boat in a lake (which appears to be the case of the PC cited above)

If they aren't connected to criminal activity, I'd say they are property of the current property owner who may, if they are scared of guns, turn them over to authorities. It might be thoughtful if the actual owner can be identified through research to attempt a return, but that seems unlikely.

As the current hypothetical "owner" of said property, guns included, it would now be up to you to make sure they are legally configured, and if you wish transferred into your ownership officially. We all know there are a lot of "unregistered" firearms out there... and that very likely applies to these?


The real question is how soon you can tear all the other walls apart and find the ammo stash, as that's probably worth as much as the house!

[pacrat]

But 2080.7, also quoted, likely does apply.

2080.7.

The provisions of this article have no application to things which have been intentionally abandoned by their owner.

Building walls around hidden valuables. Then selling the house, and moving off without recovering them smacks heavily of intent.

With the onus of proving guilt, placed on any hypothetical prosecutor if they charge someone with a pc 2080.7 violation.

How would they prove "beyond a reasonable doubt" in this hypothetical instance, that someone in the past built walls to create a hidden closet to hide property. Then either forgot doing so, or what ?, intended to buy the house back in the future so they could retrieve the stash?

The hypothetical WHAT IFS are endless.

[Librarian]

Building walls around hidden valuables. Then selling the house, and moving off without recovering them smacks heavily of intent.

With the onus of proving guilt, placed on any hypothetical prosecutor if they charge someone with a pc 2080.7 violation.

How would they prove "beyond a reasonable doubt" in this hypothetical instance, that someone in the past built walls to create a hidden closet to hide property. Then either forgot doing so, or what ?, intended to buy the house back in the future so they could retrieve the stash?

The hypothetical WHAT IFS are endless.

Would you care to re-read (civil code) 2080.7 and speculate how anything could violate it? In plain, it says 'abandoned property is not covered by the lost/stolen section.' That is, it supports your argument.

[pacrat]

I suppose the only issue might be if it were stolen they might try to pin it on the person who had the gun.

Highly unlikely to result in more than worse case scenario of loss of said property. PC 496 [a]

496.

(a) Every person who buys or receives any property that has been stolen or that has been obtained in any manner constituting theft or extortion, knowing the property to be so stolen or obtained, or who conceals, sells, withholds, or aids in concealing, selling, or withholding any property from the owner, knowing the property to be so stolen or obtained, shall be punished by imprisonment in a county jail for not more than one year, or imprisonment pursuant to subdivision (h) of Section 1170. However, if the value of the property does not exceed nine hundred fifty dollars ($950), the offense shall be a misdemeanor, punishable only by imprisonment in a county jail not exceeding one year, if such person has no prior convictions for an offense specified in clause (iv) of subparagraph (C) of paragraph (2) of subdivision (e) of Section 667 or for an offense requiring registration pursuant to subdivision (c) of Section 290.

A prosecutor would have to again prove beyond a reasonable doubt. That the current possessor of said property KNEW it was STOLEN. Intent in such a case would be a Bridge Too Far to prove.

[pacrat]

Would you care to re-read (civil code) 2080.7 and speculate how anything could violate it? In plain, it says 'abandoned property is not covered by the lost/stolen section.' That is, it supports your argument.

DOH!

I'll fall back on one of your own previous excuses. "I took time out to answer the dinner bell".

Rocinante stumbled a bit. And I lost focus. Or a bit more honestly, I suffered a senior moment brainfart.

Give Dapple a carrot for me.

[Ewok55]

Move away and abandon is one thing. Say the person who hid them died or had Alzheimer's or whatever. Would that make them the property of the heirs?

[AlHO1966]

I believe the law states... “Finders keepers, losers weepers.” But I have not checked this with case law.

Hypothetically I would keep my mouth shut and enjoy the find.

[Fjold]

When I lived in Idaho, I had a partially finished basement. When I finished out a couple of walls, I built a concealed gun cabinet behind a false wall in a bedroom closet. I put the house up for sale but I didn't tell the realtor or anyone who looked at the house about it. When I moved out, I left the false wall open so that the new owners would find it.

[norcalAF]

When I lived in Idaho, I had a partially finished basement. When I finished out a couple of walls, I built a concealed gun cabinet behind a false wall in a bedroom closet. I put the house up for sale but I didn't tell the realtor or anyone who looked at the house about it. When I moved out, I left the false wall open so that the new owners would find it.

Nice guy!

[VictorFranko]

Hypothetically speaking, everyone needs a lake gun OP.

[SanDiego619]

$50 gun buyback!!!

[A-J]

Highly unlikely to result in more than worse case scenario of loss of said property. PC 496 [a]



A prosecutor would have to again prove beyond a reasonable doubt. That the current possessor of said property KNEW it was STOLEN. Intent in such a case would be a Bridge Too Far to prove.

Speaking hypothetically though, there is nothing that would preclude the local LEOs from arresting you for possession of stolen property and seizing that as evidence. Even if the DA ultimately does not prosecute for lack of "intent" on your part, there is about a zero percent chance of getting the property back from the PD.

[tony270]

I believe the law states... “Finders keepers, losers weepers.” But I have not checked this with case law.

Hypothetically I would keep my mouth shut and enjoy the find.

No, that's the California Law, just because you loose something it's still yours, no different than finding a horse, dog, cat, chicken. The lost and found law is a Federal Martine Law, states have different laws but most are like ours. It applies to metal detecting finds too. Back 45 years ago when you found something we reported to LE and the local news paper lost and found. If after 30 days the property wasn't claimed the finder could keep it (still like that for state law). Then city and county started making laws that when the property wasn't claimed it became theirs to auction and keep the proceeds.

I believe the case law involves lost farm animal/s (livestock).

The conclusion, the person doesn't have a duty to take possession of lost property, but once they do, it triggers the reporting requirement. I'm a metal detector dude.

Be careful reporting found property, sometimes the owner or LE suggest that the finder stole it, could be better leaving it be, or keeping your mouth shut.