Ammo and handgun same container

[RickD427]

How would you describe self-defense laws?

Mayor, it's always good to hear from you.

I would describe them pretty much the same. I can't think of any particular "self defense" law that specifically permits a person to do a particular thing (but I'm open to suggestion).

We do have statutes that are written to create a legal presumption that benefits a person using force in self-defense. Penal Code section 198.5 being a good example. But it doesn't specifically "permit" anything.

We also have language in other statutes that exclude lawful force from satisfying the elements of crime. Penal Code sections 240 and 242 are good examples. But its language also doesn't specifically "permit" anything.

[Mayor McRifle]

I would describe them pretty much the same.

So you would describe laws that permit acting in self-defense as laws that “are written to prohibit, or to mandate, specific actions”?

Self-defense laws fall within a class of laws called “permissive laws” because they permit certain activity, as opposed to prohibiting or mandating it.

OP, never mind all this. Librarian was correct in stating that there are no laws in California prohibiting storing ammo in the same container as an unloaded gun. And everyone who said it was legal to have ammo and an unloaded handgun in the same range bag was correct for the same reason.

[RickD427]

So you would describe laws that permit acting in self-defense as laws that “are written to prohibit, or to mandate, specific actions”?

Nope. You're quibbling here.

My statement was that "statutes are written to prohibit, or to mandate, specific actions. Statutes are not written to permit action." And my statement was made in context of the OP's question seeking a statute that permitted the carrying of ammunition and a firearm in the same container.

I did not state, as you seem to infer, that this is the sole purpose of statutes. Some statutes are definitional. Some statutes establish presumptions. The reason that I didn't go down that road is because it was outside of the question's context.

But they do not exist for the purpose of giving folks governmental "permission" to engage in activities.

If you believe differently, then please cite such a statute. You've had two opportunities so far in this discussion.

[darksands]

So took a class and the person running the class said you cannot have loaded magazines in the same container as that is considered a loaded firearm. They were referencing the book "How to Own a Gun and Stay Out of Jail".
Interesting cause loaded magazines locked in the same container as the unloaded gun is a approved way to fly with a firearm according to TSA and airlines. Ultimately it all depends on the officer.

[RickD427]

So took a class and the person running the class said you cannot have loaded magazines in the same container as that is considered a loaded firearm. They were referencing the book "How to Own a Gun and Stay Out of Jail".
Interesting cause loaded magazines locked in the same container as the unloaded gun is a approved way to fly with a firearm according to TSA and airlines. Ultimately it all depends on the officer.

Please give a close read to Penal Code section 16840(b) and to the California Court of Appeals 1996 decision in People v Clark. Unless you're in one of the very few circumstances where the special definition of "Loaded" applies, you can carry the firearm and loaded magazines in the same container.

I have not read the text "How to own a Gun and Stay Out of Jail", but I have seen many positive reviews of the text. I doubt that you you would find such a statement contained within it.

As a rule, it's not a good idea to blindly accept all statements of course instructors. There's a lot of bad information out there, folks don't always hear words as they were spoken, and many instructors sometimes will present summary level information to make a point simple in the grand sense, at the expense of being inaccurate in the finer details. That happens a lot with California legal stuff. The statutes are not always clear and concise, and every rule seems to have at least one exception. Judge Benitez made a point of addressing this issue in his decision in the Duncan case.

[OCEquestrian]

CHP used tp have an FAQ, this was the Q and A from that site. Seems the FAQ for firearms is no longer working. Someone else may chime in with more specifics of the PC, etc.

"I will be traveling to California and want to carry my weapon. I currently have a concealed weapon permit. How can I legally transport my weapon while driving through the state?

California law does not recognize concealed weapon permits from other states; therefore, they would not be held valid. If you wish to transport a handgun during your California visit, it should be carried unloaded in a locked container. In the absence of a suitable container, you may secure the unloaded handgun in the locked trunk of a passenger car. Ammunition may be kept in the same container or trunk, but the handgun must remain unloaded with no rounds in the cylinder and no loaded magazines in the magazine well."

its still there on the CHP website. Go to FAQ and type "handgun" in the search box;

[drkphibr]

Thank you librarian. My daughter attended a entry level handgun course, and the retired Leo instructor told her not to have them in the locked bag together.

And herein lies the problem...e.g., a retired law enforcement office who has been incorrect about this topic his entire career and now teaching such incorrectness.

[OCEquestrian]

For what it's worth, I actually keep a copy of the ChP website page that discusses the situation in every one of my range bags, just in case.

[Fishslayer]

My BIL is a retired Sheriff & swears up & down they need to be in separate containers.

I finally quit arguing.

[RickD427]

My BIL is a retired Sheriff & swears up & down they need to be in separate containers.

I finally quit arguing.

What county was your BIL the Sheriff of?

A Sheriff should have a better grasp of the law and should ensure that his deputies have a proper understanding of it.

[Jwalt]

I was told by LAPD twice that ammo and pistol must be in separate locked containers.

They are wrong. They do not know the law. I do not want to go to L.A. County jail. I comply.

[AregularGuy]

its still there on the CHP website. Go to FAQ and type "handgun" in the search box;

Doh! Thank you! I looked at the FAQ menu, nothing. Then searched for "firearm", nothing. Did not search for "handgun".

[3006]

My BIL is a retired Sheriff & swears up & down they need to be in separate containers.

I finally quit arguing.

Next time I see my Nephew I will ask him just as a test to his knowledge of gun laws . Hes only been out of the police academy a couple years.
I do believe Fish and game has a different definition but its been awhile since I looked at it.