Private party transfer question

[AregularGuy]

Some FFLs prefer not to see the money exchange, mostly because of the potential tax issue: if the FFL might be considered to have done more than the statutory minimum, that could be a taxable service.

I have done 3 PPT; all were parking-lot money transfers.

I wish we could get an FFL to answer this question. What is the statutory minimum? They are processing a PPT transaction. They aren't handling any money between the parties involved. Somehow if they view the PPT transaction that they are processing it becomes taxable? And what is taxed? The FFL never handles the PT money. At what threshold does that person to person money become taxable?

[QuinnBayArea]

I wish we could get an FFL to answer this question. What is the statutory minimum? They are processing a PPT transaction. They aren't handling any money between the parties involved. Somehow if they view the PPT transaction that they are processing it becomes taxable? And what is taxed? The FFL never handles the PT money. At what threshold does that person to person money become taxable?

We don't care. There is no overbearing tax issue with a private party transaction. We want YOU to feel safe. Ask to borrow a money pen to check the money, ask to use our cash counter if its a large sum, ask for one of us to quickly look the gun over, we will do it all to make you feel comfortable.
I'de rather you do that, then stand out in front of my store in full view of traffic looking a gun over and exchanging cash. Please don't do that, come inside, I promise we wont yell at you.

[AregularGuy]

We don't care. There is no overbearing tax issue with a private party transaction. We want YOU to feel safe. Ask to borrow a money pen to check the money, ask to use our cash counter if its a large sum, ask for one of us to quickly look the gun over, we will do it all to make you feel comfortable.
I'de rather you do that, then stand out in front of my store in full view of traffic looking a gun over and exchanging cash. Please don't do that, come inside, I promise we wont yell at you.

Sweet Christmas! This is a fantastic answer! Thank you.

[sigstroker]

if you exchange money INSIDE the FFL, the FFL can charge you the tax, although they usually ask you to step outside. No the FFL will not check for fake bills, ask for $100 with the hologram strip can not be forged as easily as old $20s. Also the iTrader rating, as a zero, I would not buy from you.

If it's the good chinese counterfeit, it's basically same as U.S. Nobody else you give that money to will be able to tell the difference, not even the typical Treasury agent.

[Imageview]

If a sale takes place inside a place of business, that business is responsible for collecting sales tax on that transaction. Librarian is correct.

Most gun stores are not aware of this rule and don't care. Ask, and if they care walk outside and hand the money over after inspection but before paperwork. If they refuse inspection inside (I've used 9 different shops, never seen this but I don't use big box guys) never do any business there again and find a new shop.

[AregularGuy]

If a sale takes place inside a place of business, that business is responsible for collecting sales tax on that transaction. Librarian is correct.

Most gun stores are not aware of this rule and don't care. Ask, and if they care walk outside and hand the money over after inspection but before paperwork. If they refuse inspection inside (I've used 9 different shops, never seen this but I don't use big box guys) never do any business there again and find a new shop.

Please show a reference where tax us to be collected. As mentioned above there is no tax liability on the part if the FFL. If you are certain please cite reference.

[Banyan70]

Thank for the responses. I’ve sold most my guns on consignment at a local gun shop. I’ve done 2 ppt transfers at the local gun shop and at big five. I’ll get the money before dros. I’ll get the money in hundred dollar bills, I’ll need to check to see how to fake ones and use money pen. Do inspection inside and money transfer, How is tax involved with a private sale with a used item that already had sales tax charged on it? The gun shop and big five never demanded taxes be paid

[AregularGuy]

Thank for the responses. I’ve sold most my guns on consignment at a local gun shop. I’ve done 2 ppt transfers at the local gun shop and at big five. I’ll get the money before dros. I’ll get the money in hundred dollar bills, I’ll need to check to see how to fake ones and use money pen. Do inspection inside and money transfer, How is tax involved with a private sale with a used item that already had sales tax charged on it? The gun shop and big five never demanded taxes be paid

They will charge you tax on the PPT charge, not on the sale price of the gun. Might be different on consignment. How would they know how much you sold the gun for? You could tell them anything as the transaction of money as nothing to do with them. Did you ever give or get a receipt doing a PPT? I have not.

[Banyan70]

So get the money exchanged outside the store? Count and test money outside and big five doesn’t know the value of the transaction?

[AregularGuy]

So get the money exchanged outside the store? Count and test money outside and big five doesn’t know the value of the transaction?

You can do as you like. But I have said, others have said, and an FFL, has said, to exchange money in store if you feel more safe. That was one of your primary concerns was getting jacked for your money. Are you also going to show the gun outside? Because no one is giving you money without a gun being inspected. How would Big5 know how much anyone is paying unless you tell them. Even if you stand in front of the employee and count the money, how do they know how much it is? And even then they have no right to tax it. Have you read any of this thread?

ETA: You say you have done 2 PPT's. How did you do them and then not already have the answer to the questions you are asking here? In fact, what is it exactly that you are asking? Either you have done 2 PPT's already or you have done none.

[Librarian]

Please show a reference where tax us to be collected. As mentioned above there is no tax liability on the part if the FFL. If you are certain please cite reference.

The sales tax issue is extensively discussed in the sticky thread in the FFL forum - http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/s...d.php?t=366781

[CGGun]

Does nobody use envelopes? I always put the cash in a plain white envelope and hand it to the person after we begin the paperwork. As far as anyone watching knows, all you did was hand someone an envelope.

If the seller wants to count it they can step away from the counter and discreetly count it.

But I agree with the general sentiment that most are voicing here which is that these things are best done inside the store and for the most part the staff isn't that worried about it.

[AregularGuy]

The sales tax issue is extensively discussed in the sticky thread in the FFL forum - http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/s...d.php?t=366781

Thank you!

[Batman]

As a rule, if I'm selling the gun, I'll bring it in to the FFL and tell them I'm doing a PPT. I'll have the gun in a case, and offer for them to inspect it, usually putting it on the counter and letting them open the case up as I stand back a step. They'll usually check to make sure the action's clear and then ask if the buyer is there. I usually ask if they're OK with doing the cash transaction in the store. If yes, buyer inspects the gun and hands me the money. If no, buyer inspects the gun, we step outside while the FFL holds the gun, and we do the transaction. Go back and finish the paperwork. Easy-peasy, but always ask the FFL what their preference is.

[AregularGuy]

The sales tax issue is extensively discussed in the sticky thread in the FFL forum - http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/s...d.php?t=366781

It looks like the latest reference in that thread regarding tax on PPT is from 2014. "... a PPT, it would not be subject to sales tax unless the FFL gets involved finding the buyer/seller or with the price"
Looks like no mention of inside/outside the store. If this is the latest mention of this issue, hopefully it is definitive as well, I wish people would stop spreading this urban myth.

Here:

http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showpost.php?p=13947272&postcount=243

It does not matter how many times an item has had sales tax collected on it, all that matters is how it is transaction and whether that transaction is subject to sales tax.

A FFL selling a consignment firearm has to collect sales tax on it. If the FFL buys a firearm from a customer and then sells it, sales tax has to be collected on it. A PPT is subject to sales tax if the FFL finds the buyer/seller or gets involved in the price.

If a person in a state which has no sales tax buys a firearm and moves to CA, then later sells it as a PPT, it would not be subject to sales tax unless the FFL gets involved finding the buyer/seller or with the price.

Oh, if a person out of state buys a firearm and sends it to a CA resident as a gift, it is not subject to CA sales tax.