Advanced CA roster question

[Equitymind]

First off, not a newbie and I do know a lot about the roster having drilled down on detailed minutia and herein is where my question lies.

I really like the new Sig Sauer P220 Nightmare and while looking at the CA DOJ roster of approved firearms, sometimes it gives a model designation such as for the P229R: 229R-9-BSS-CA

However in two instances for firearms that I am interested in, there is no model designation, simply a description such as for the aforementioned Sig Sauer P220Rvery simple descriptiontheir description as well

[Equitymind]

I should also add that unlike the Sig Sauer P229R and P226R, neither of these two models that are approved have the LCI or mag disconnect so that is a non issue.

[tabascoz28]

I would ask your LGS first. I use two, one because they are cheaper, and one when they get anal about transfers and the grip doesn't match the web site pictures.

[abinsinia]

The roster should be struck down in the courts simply because it's so vague..

[edgerly779]

Contact gffl shootscal in fullerton and ask. They have cheapest transfers/dros in area.

[plumbum]

So your question is, “is it legal if my FFL fudges what they transfer to me?” The answer is: An FFL can face fines and loss of license if the DOJ finds they weren’t following the regulations as they should. The Nightmare version has not been added to roster, but should an FFL receive and transfer one to you - well they aren’t exactly thorough on their end.

[foothillman]

The manufacturer needs to submit it with changes and have it added to the ROSTER.
Just like the new colors for S&W Shield.

Manufacturer Model Caliber Gun Type Barrel Length Date Added
Smith & Wesson M&P9 SHIELD (Robin's Egg Blue) SKU 13394 .9 mm Pistol.3" 10/20/2020

They can not just come out with it and start to sell in California.

32030.


(a) A firearm shall be deemed to satisfy the requirements of subdivision (a) of Section 32015 if another firearm made by the same manufacturer is already listed and the unlisted firearm differs from the listed firearm only in one or more of the following features:

(1) Finish, including, but not limited to, bluing, chrome-plating, oiling, or engraving.

(2) The material from which the grips are made.

(3) The shape or texture of the grips, so long as the difference in grip shape or texture does not in any way alter the dimensions, material, linkage, or functioning of the magazine well, the barrel, the chamber, or any of the components of the firing mechanism of the firearm.

(4) Any other purely cosmetic feature that does not in any way alter the dimensions, material, linkage, or functioning of the magazine well, the barrel, the chamber, or any of the components of the firing mechanism of the firearm.

(b) Any manufacturer seeking to have a firearm listed under this section shall provide to the Department of Justice all of the following:

(1) The model designation of the listed firearm.

(2) The model designation of each firearm that the manufacturer seeks to have listed under this section.

(3) A statement, under oath, that each unlisted firearm for which listing is sought differs from the listed firearm only in one or more of the ways identified in subdivision (a) and is in all other respects identical to the listed firearm.

(c) The department may, in its discretion and at any time, require a manufacturer to provide to the department any model for which listing is sought under this section, to determine whether the model complies with the requirements of this section.

(Added by Stats. 2010, Ch. 711, Sec. 6. (SB 1080) Effective January 1, 2011. Operative January 1, 2012, by Sec. 10 of Ch. 711.)

It is my understanding that 3 submitted handguns are kept in a super secret secure vault.
At any time they can be used to compare with current manufactured handguns.
They only have to provide the make and model NOT the UPC or MPN
That is why adding CA to all newer manufacturer of on ROSTER handguns is causing so much confusion.

manufacturer provides three handguns of the make and model for which certification is sought to an independent testing laboratory certified by the Attorney General pursuant to Section 32010. These handguns may not be refined or modified in any way from those that would be made available for retail sale if certification is granted. The magazines of a tested pistol shall be identical to those that would be provided with the pistol to a retail customer.

Use your brain for your freedom counts on it.

[EricT71]

AFAIK the roster is specific to each manufacturer part number. Each finish of each model has it's own part number.

[Bullets&Whitewalls]

It all comes down to the SKU numbers. Model aside the color changes change the SKU number. While a certain model may be on the roster a newer version with any deviation from the original rostered model including color will have a new number.

[Robotron2k84]

http://terms.snipp.com/SigSauer/Pistols.pdf

Search for parts ending in -CA. Those are the rostered guns.

[ar15barrels]

I really like the new Sig Sauer P220 Nightmare and while looking at the CA DOJ roster of approved firearms, sometimes it gives a model designation such as for the P229R: 229R-9-BSS-CA

The on-roster Sig SKU is 229R-9-BSS-CA
The gun you are interested in's Sig SKU is E29R-9-NMR-CW-500

Since the gun you are interested in is NOT listed on the roster, you can't simply have a gun store order you one in CA.
You will need to find another way to get it through a roster-exempt transaction.

Another option is to buy the on-roster model and then buy all the parts that are different and install them on your rostered gun.

[9kracing]

Wow, sooo many people either didn't read the OP or struggle with reading comprehension.

Go to the CA roster. There is NO part number for the P220. All the other Sigs have the part numbers listed, the P220 does not. IDK why people are talking about 229s lol.


OP - to answer your question, it's up the FFL if he wants to do it or not. To be frank, if you can find a willing FFL I don't see why you shouldn't.

[Robotron2k84]

[Equitymind]

Wow, sooo many people either didn't read the OP or struggle with reading comprehension.

Go to the CA roster. There is NO part number for the P220. All the other Sigs have the part numbers listed, the P220 does not. IDK why people are talking about 229s lol.


OP - to answer your question, it's up the FFL if he wants to do it or not. To be frank, if you can find a willing FFL I don't see why you shouldn't.

Thank you for actually reading my post

My FFL came back to me with a no go on the Nightmare. Now I'm checking on the Sig P239 SAS but based on foothillman's post above that mentions cosmetic differences such as engraving, I'm thinking that those three little letters (SAS) make this firearm 'unsafe' for me here in CA. Thanks to the state for looking out for my safety and keeping this unsafe firearm off of the approved roster.

[IVC]

OP - to answer your question, it's up the FFL if he wants to do it or not. To be frank, if you can find a willing FFL I don't see why you shouldn't.

^^^ This.

Roster initially listed guns just by generic model, but the powers in charge figured out it wasn't specific enough and new guns could be transferred even though they are quite different from the ones tested. So, much more recently, they started playing games with adding designations to the SKU numbers or otherwise differentiating guns for CA market (just look at S&W revolvers).

While they don't want you to get a "Sig P220," if that's on the roster and an FFL is willing to transfer it, he is indeed transferring a "Sig P220." Now, finding an FFL who will do this with a new model is likely impossible - I would bet good money that nobody is willing to be the test case in the court if there is an issue.