Home Defense and Auditory Exclusion

[HKAllTheThings]

Battle craps are a thing. So lay a brick before you lay your head on the pillow every night.

[003]

Are you telling the world that you are going to put your hearing protection on when three guys bust into your house? Or even one guy?

Sounds to me like you guys need to think about getting in touch with earth, before you completely leave orbit.

Insane.

Of course not, never stated or implied I was, (don't read something into a post that is not there). The only point of the post is that while auditory exclusion is real, it does not protect or lessen hearing damage. Auditory exclusion is a psychological issue, not a physical issue. Hearing damage can be cause by a single incident of exposure to loud noise. Now having said that, if I was confronted in my home and needed to use by gun in self defense the potential hearing loss would not be a consideration.

By the way my home defense gun of choice is a Remington 870 loaded with #4 buckshot, backed up my a Glock 34. Both with lights to be used as necessary.

[ScottsBad]

I agree. I use a Sig 556xi pistol (10.5" barrel) with a brace, effectively an SBR, 30 rd mag, as my main H.D. rifle. I choose it primarily because of ballistics/caliber considerations; I want a round with the greatest possibility of stopping the threat. I have a 9mm handgun at my night stand, but as we have joked on this forum, it is for fighting my way to my rifle loaded with 5.56. And how loud the damn thing is does not enter into my list of criteria.

Decades ago, I have actually grabbed a handgun in the middle of a deep sleep, instantly, because of activity at the homestead. Did not turn on any lights, I did not put on my glasses (my eyesight was better back then), pants, shoes or anything, just enough time to grab a gun and run towards the back doors. My wife hid in the master bathroom, no cell phones back then. It was a false alarm, but when the adrenaline is pumping, when seconds count, you tend to have an extremely narrow focus. I have actually learned a lot from that experience. We have night lights in the living room and kitchen my wife turns on every single night. I now have a WML on my handgun and rifle. If i have some hearing issues after a home defense shooting, I would consider myself lucky because that means I survived.

I like how you put it. And I like the weapon you chose.

Yeah, you do what you can do, if you have the time. I tend to prepare for the worst case. I've had a couple of occasions when the dog barked in the middle of the night and I grabbed my gun and got to my defensive position at the top of the stairs.

You know, using my pistol to get to my rifle is my philosophy too. I keep the rifle with Surefire and MRO close to me, but sometimes the 9 is closer.

With LED lights these days, we leave one 60w equivalent on a timer in the middle of the downstairs, and a couple motion detector lights around. But Bay Alarm is helpful too.

[ScottsBad]

"loudness" is not in my consideration for comparisons of typical home defense firearms available in CA.

The ears are damaged by loud noises. That is because of physics.

Most generally accepted home defense calibers are loud enough to cause damage.

As mentioned by others, while hearing loss is not desirable, ear damage is preferable to death.

Auditory exclusion is a perception issue. Just because the noise didn't distract you, doesn't mean your ears aren't damaged. It does mean, that a loud gun would affect your attention NO more than a quieter gun at the time of shooting.

Too bad suppressors are not easily and commonly available in CA.

Its interesting, there is some information that suggests that a loud noise causes ears to excrete a protective chemical. I'm not going to spend time tracking down the info on that, however.

That could be the reason soldiers don't completely lose their hearing, because soldiers seldom, according to the doc I read, wear the foam ear protection they are issued. Or use ear protection of any kind.

Soldiers are affected and suffer hearing loss, but it seems that the hearing loss is not uniform across all soldiers. Interesting

[003]

Its interesting, there is some information that suggests that a loud noise causes ears to excrete a protective chemical. I'm not going to spend time tracking down the info on that, however.

That could be the reason soldiers don't completely loose their hearing, because soldiers seldom, according to the doc I read, wear the foam ear protection they are issued. Or use ear protection of any kind.

Soldiers are affected and suffer hearing loss, but it seems that the hearing loss is not uniform across all soldiers. Interesting

I read a DOD study some time back that showed a significant number of mid grade military NCO's suffered from some level of hearing loss.

[ScottsBad]

Bill Burr makes a salient point. Prob seen that routine 10 times in recent months. Great comic.

I still want to be sure I've actually stopped any threat, however, and therefore I will continue to rely upon the effects of a well-placed .45 cal 230 grain projectile.


Meanwhile...

The last time I was out in the Mojave, alone, for target practice (yeah, yeah, I know. Take it easy, already) I returned to my firing line after my lunch break wearing my Howard Leight Electronic Ear protection on my head.

I drew my Springfield .45 Auto 1911 from my holster, aligned my front sight and squeezed.

OMF'NG WHATHEHELLWAZTHAT!?

I thought a bomb had gone off, and I dropped vertically straight down, with my hands still in the air (it happened so fast) in a dramatic ducking manuver.

Turns out that while I had my ear pro on my head, I did not have them COVERING my ears! D'oh!




Point being: Until you hear your .45 uncorked you have no idea.

"Loud" is a supreme understatement. And that was in open air, in the middle of the Mojave desert on a windless day...

There are probably more of us here that have done that than care to admit it. More than once....

[ScottsBad]

I read a DOD study some time back that showed a significant number of mid grade military NCO's suffered from some level of hearing loss.

Yeah, I don't know how a soldier could go to war and not suffer some hearing loss. The question to me is how they avoid losing all their hearing.

[Scratch705]

I'm not complaining, I'm questioning your efficacy in that kind of situation. I'm questioning if it's realistic, hoping you'll think about it more.

I'm also suggesting that someone could get hurt while putting on their hearing protection. And whether or not anyone would follow through when someone busts in the back door

I think that hearing protection is a needless affectation when lives are at stake.

As for your glasses, well I wear glasses too. And I don't think I'd probably think to put them on, but my eyesight is only really bad close up, so I can still hit stuff with my RDS and weapon light. I just point the blurry dot, and pull the trigger.

If your eyesight is such that identification is a problem, well that's a problem. And I'm sorry you are experiencing that.

donning ear protection during an emergency situation is like anything when it comes to firearms, practice.

i run drills putting it on at home. i have got it down to the point that it takes me the same amount of time to put on my glasses as my hearing protection. i use my HL impact sport cause it is easy to put on and i have it adjusted so all i am doing is plunking it on my head. it also serves a second function of holding my glasses tight against my head so if i do take a tumble, my glasses won't be flying off.

and yes, my vision is near sighted. pretty much unless it is about 8 inches from my face, i see zero detail. i just see a fuzzy haze like when a camera doesn't focus. i have to put on my glasses or else i would literally be handicapping myself against intruders.

not sure why you have to be so opposed to someone else deciding to put on hearing protection for home defense? you think i am just randomly deciding to do it with zero practice or thought behind it? i am not demanding anyone else do it, i am only saying i do it, and will do it b/c that is part of my own setup/procedures for my situation at my home.

[ScottsBad]

Of course not, never stated or implied I was, (don't read something into a post that is not there). The only point of the post is that while auditory exclusion is real, it does not protect or lessen hearing damage. Auditory exclusion is a psychological issue, not a physical issue. Hearing damage can be cause by a single incident of exposure to loud noise. Now having said that, if I was confronted in my home and needed to use by gun in self defense the potential hearing loss would not be a consideration.

By the way my home defense gun of choice is a Remington 870 loaded with #4 buckshot, backed up my a Glock 34. Both with lights to be used as necessary.

I used to keep #4 buck in my shotgun, before I bought ARs, but I once mentioned to a cop that I keep my shotgun loaded with #4 buck. He kinda screwed his face up and said something to the effect of, we use 00. And then offered something like, "We don't like to screw around."

I still have my #4 and I added 00. Now, #4 buck might not over penetrate and I can understand that, but I recently realized that more BBs means more possibility for some to go astray.

I don't know what the answer is for shotguns. so, I just like dealing with one pill at a time.

[The War Wagon]

Neutralize badguy(s) first. Tell cop I wanna talk to my lawyer, because I can't hear his questions anyways, second.

[RedFord150]

Yeah, I don't know how a soldier could go to war and not suffer some hearing loss. The question to me is how they avoid losing all their hearing.

My Dad was a Korean War Vet from 1950 to 1952. He was a "Mortar Man".

He did lose some of his high frequency hearing in the service. I always assumed the 1950's hearing protection was not great. Maybe they didn't use it at all.

[ScottsBad]

donning ear protection during an emergency situation is like anything when it comes to firearms, practice.

i run drills putting it on at home. i have got it down to the point that it takes me the same amount of time to put on my glasses as my hearing protection. i use my HL impact sport cause it is easy to put on and i have it adjusted so all i am doing is plunking it on my head. it also serves a second function of holding my glasses tight against my head so if i do take a tumble, my glasses won't be flying off.

and yes, my vision is near sighted. pretty much unless it is about 8 inches from my face, i see zero detail. i just see a fuzzy haze like when a camera doesn't focus. i have to put on my glasses or else i would literally be handicapping myself against intruders.

not sure why you have to be so opposed to someone else deciding to put on hearing protection for home defense? you think i am just randomly deciding to do it with zero practice or thought behind it? i am not demanding anyone else do it, i am only saying i do it, and will do it b/c that is part of my own setup/procedures for my situation at my home.

I'm only opposed to it as a suggestion to new shooters as if it was a necessity, and I think its important to think it through and know what the options are. Especially with home invasions on the rise.

If you have to shoot inside the house (a very low probability for that), it is probably not going to result in any significant hearing loss, at least none you will notice.

Instead of taking the time to put on hearing protection use that time to adjust your position better for defense.

One thing I did, was to measure the amount of time it takes for me to get from an entry door to the Master Bedroom.

[ScottsBad]

My Dad was a Korean War Vet from 1950 to 1952. He was a "Mortar Man".

He did lose some of his high frequency hearing in the service. I always assumed the 1950's hearing protection was not great. Maybe they didn't use it at all.

Yeah, you can look it up. Even now the guys don't use their hearing protection as they should. I imagine they weren't issued any in the Korean war. I'll ask my step Dad about the Korean war when I see him next time.

[L84CABO]

In a REAL HD situation, are you really going to fit your ear pro? Really?

The most honest and objective answer is MAYBE.

It literally takes a second and a half to throw on a pair of electronic muffs if they're staged next to the bed. The odds aren't 100% that there will be enough time to put them on. But that's the beauty of it. You lose NOTHING by staging them. If there isn't time, then skip them.

But I personally believe that the odds of there being time are greater than 50%. Home defense situations run the entire gamut. And not every situation starts out with the dude half way through your bedroom window already. Further, a decent pair of electronics can actually improve your ability to hear low noises.

[ScottsBad]

Timed a home invasion from my entry doors to our Master bedroom, moving quickly around to look around corners for others downstairs before proceeding up. Medium speed quiet walk, not a run.

Home invasion while asleep
Front door to Master - Less than 15 seconds.
Back garage door to Master - Less than 20 seconds

If they run in, knock 10 seconds off each.

If we were down stairs to the farthest door maybe 2-3 seconds if they were moving cautiously.

If it was a burglary, and we were upstairs, and they were trying not to be caught, but we heard them downstairs. We might have a chance to put on ear protection, but I wouldn't mess around with it. Because you don't know where they are.

I measured this time for my wife, because she likes to keep her pistol in a locked box, un-chambered. She prefers a pistol (I'm working on her) over an AR.

She would have no time to prepare once she got her gun out of the box.

It kinda goes like this:

Bang bang crash!

- couple seconds -

What the hell was that noise?

- couple seconds listening -

Someone is in the house!

Wholly, SSSS!

- Couple seconds getting up -

- Couple seconds getting gun -

- Check the chamber, and find a defensive position.

- There just isn't much time