PSA AR Pistol kit question

[GrampaJoel]

If I purchase an AR pistol kit ( minus the lower) from PSA, and never put it together.
Have I broken any laws?
Is it illegal to own the parts?
Thanks.

[Kiltlifter19000]

nope not illegal... unless you're a felon or have been convicted of domestic violence etc.. etc.

[GrampaJoel]

Well I'm asking because I'm not sure of the laws and regulations in California.
I have looked and read for several days.
And I even followed the is it legal on the pistol chart.
But it's way to complex for me to comprehend I guess.
I get a email from PSA for a pistol kit.
Sounds like it could be fun. But I'm not sure I want a AR pistol.
So I thought that if I bought a kit I could decide at a later date, and take advantage of a sale.

[SkyHawk]

If you own a pistol upper and a AR rifle and you keep them in close proximity, that can set you up for a federal NFA violation, penalty 10 years in prison.

So I would not keep an AR pistol upper in the same house with an AR rifle, unless you also own a registered AR pistol lower.

And you cannot build a semi auto AR pistol in CA, it will have to be built as a single shot.

[ARDude]

What SkyHawk said....But if you were able to find a semi auto AR pistol lower for sale in Ca, it would cost $$$.

[mr goodguy]

That’s the only reason why I’m not selling my ar pistol even thou I know it has no use... it’s loud and it’s not even fun to shoot and it’s us ugly as the owner.lol

[tabascoz28]

Agreed, hate those braces, so that's why I got the Shockwave and made it a 9mm. Now it's as sexy as this owner.
pis.jpg

[hitdank]

Psa emailed you for ordering a short upper? Technically if you bought a bare receiver you can own but not use it.

[JustaBlokeAnywhere]

If you own a pistol upper and a AR rifle and you keep them in close proximity, that can set you up for a federal NFA violation, penalty 10 years in prison.

So I would not keep an AR pistol upper in the same house with an AR rifle, unless you also own a registered AR pistol lower.

And you cannot build a semi auto AR pistol in CA, it will have to be built as a single shot.

Thanks SkyHawk, but isn't this "constructive intent" and is this something successfully prosecuted by the CADOJ or like peeps? Or is it just another internet Baba Yaga (without the cool John Wick clothes/moves)

I'm sure it's been hashed out many times over all the G Boards.....but I'd be curious to see if there has been any recent prosecutions or something to that extend.

Following this thread and making popcorn now!!!!!

[sigstroker]

If you own a pistol upper and a AR rifle and you keep them in close proximity, that can set you up for a federal NFA violation, penalty 10 years in prison.

So I would not keep an AR pistol upper in the same house with an AR rifle, unless you also own a registered AR pistol lower.

And you cannot build a semi auto AR pistol in CA, it will have to be built as a single shot.

This is usually if they want to get you on something else and just want to pile charges on you. The Feds LOVVVE to have more charges because if you're found not guilty on 20 charges and guilty on one, the not guilty charges count against you on sentencing.

If you don't have an AR rifle, not a problem. If you do, it would be better to stash the pistol upper in a storage room or a vacation house or a friend's house. It help demonstrate your intent, which is stupid because it's not in written law, but that's our justice system.

As for being on sale... huh? This is the worst time to buy guns or parts. I bought a pistol parts set from PSA 2 years ago for $280. The same thing is $480 now.

[Paperchasin]

To be more specific, the concern is regarding the short barreled upper barrel/receiver....

I am re-posting this from Quiet's post in this thread here:

https://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=1515086

"Under Federal and CA laws, there is "constructive possession" for NFA items (DD, MG, SBR, SBS, Silencer).

Technically, there is no CA "constructive possession" for assault weapons.

However, there have been convictions for possessing illegal assault weapons because the defendents were in possession of broken assault weapons and for possessing parts with the intent to make an assault weapon.
^"broken assault weapon" = assembled semi-auto centerfire rifle with restricted features with the bolt-carrier group removed but stored near the firearm.
^"possessing parts with the intent to make an assault weapon" = having all the parts to make an assault weapon with no parts to make it CA legal.

This can cause aggressive CA LEOs/DA's Office, to arrest/confiscate for "constructive possession" of assault weapons.
But, depending on how good your lawyer is, the charges for this can be dropped.

So, you can beat the rap but not the ride.

Which is why CRPA/NRA/CGF/FPC lawyers recommend that you do not store/transport the parts that can make an assault weapon together.
^Use seperate containers/locations.

Bottom line...
If you don't mind the possibility of spending $10-15,000 defending yourself against bogus felony assault weapons charges, then store/transport the parts together.
If you don't want to deal with that possibility, then store/transport the parts in different containers/locations. "

[floogy]

If you own a pistol upper and a AR rifle and you keep them in close proximity, that can set you up for a federal NFA violation, penalty 10 years in prison.

So I would not keep an AR pistol upper in the same house with an AR rifle, unless you also own a registered AR pistol lower.

And you cannot build a semi auto AR pistol in CA, it will have to be built as manual action repeater or single shot.

While it is technically possible for the ATF to charge someone with "constructive possession", it's also extremely rare. Probably even more rare than charging someone for lying on a 4473, which is also very rare. I think that in most (if not all) cases of someone getting charged, simply possessing a short barrel upper that's somewhere in the vicinity of a rifle lower is not the only thing they're being charged with. It's the least of their worries at that point.

I understand the purpose of getting a pistol kit without being able to build it yet. I don't plan on living in CA forever and would like to have a kit squirreled away to hedge my bets against price and availability in the future.

Someone could buy a 14.5" rifle kit and be in the process of pinning the muzzle device while also having the lower to complete the build. This probably happens every day all over the US and I couldn't name a single case of someone getting nabbed for it.

Better yet, if you're actually worried about it, get a muzzle device that would bring the barrel to 16"+ with the intent of making a rifle out of it, which is legal both federally and in CA. Those types of long muzzle devices are pretty common to convert Colt Commandos and AMD65s to legal rifle length. Thus covering both ends.

Yet another option would be to just have the 10.5" barrel by itself. Pretty easily built into a pistol upper should you move or hell freezes over and CA has its AW ban reversed.

[GrampaJoel]

Thanks for all the great answers and helpful info.
I'm gonna take a pass on buying a kit.
I'm to old to mess with the system.

[SkyHawk]

Psa emailed you for ordering a short upper? Technically if you bought a bare receiver you can own but not use it.

Having the bare receiver on hand may be a legit option because it would be legal federally to build into a pistol, but as you say you could not do it in CA. But since it is the feds who need to be appeased, it could be a way out.

Very interesting and worth more discussion someday.

For everyone else, I know that prosecutions may be rare but I also know we do not hear every tree fall, and we do not know of every prosecution out there.

I can only refer you to this ATF opinion, which is backed by a US Supreme court case [United States v. Thompson/Center Arms Company, 504 U.S. 505 (1992)]

https://www.atf.gov/file/55526/download

Held, a firearm, as defined by the National Firearms Act (NFA), 26 U.S.C. 5845(a)(3), is made when unassembled parts are placed in close proximity in such a way that they:
(a) Serve no useful purpose other than to make a rifle having a barrel or barrels of less than 16 inches in length (e.g., a receiver, an attachable shoulder stock, and barrel of less than 16 inches in length); or
(b) Convert a complete weapon into such an NFA firearm, including

(1) A pistol and attachable shoulder stock; and

(2) A rifle with a barrel of 16 inches or more in length, and an attachable barrel of less than 16 inches in length.

That right there says if you have a rifle and a short barrel for it, and no other purpose for that barrel, you are in possession of an unregistered short barrel rifle. And I can guarantee you the ATF is very interested in such NFA cases generally speaking, perhaps less so with the 'constructive' possessors but I am not gonna be the guy to test it out. The penalty is way too stiff.

Someone could buy a 14.5" rifle kit and be in the process of pinning the muzzle device while also having the lower to complete the build. This probably happens every day all over the US and I couldn't name a single case of someone getting nabbed for it.

Having the compliance parts on hand might be a dodge for the constructive possession, arguably more so if you didn't wait long to actually combine them permanently. And the ATF opinion does not say having a lower and a short barrel is a problem, it says having a RIFLE and a short barrel is a problem. Until you have completed a rifle and have a short barrel on hand for it, I think the window of danger has not opened.

[Quiet]

Thanks SkyHawk, but isn't this "constructive intent" and is this something successfully prosecuted by the CADOJ or like peeps? Or is it just another internet Baba Yaga (without the cool John Wick clothes/moves)

It's "constructive possession", no intent is required.

Under CA laws...

Possessing or having control over the parts to make a SBR/SBS is considered the same as possessing a functional SBR/SBS. [PC 17170(e) and 17180(e)]



Penal Code 17170Penal Code 17180