Bullet Setback

[DrjonesUSA]

Is this a normal thing? I know I shouldn't be firing a bullet that has been seated farther into the case than it should, but is there a way to fix it? Before bed, I put my 1911 in condition 1, and after a while bullets start to set back.

Yes it is normal.

No it is not good.

It's not a *huge* deal, especially for 1911's, but I remember reading a long, long time ago either here or on other forums that for certain calibers - .40 S&W in particular - bullet setback can be catastrophic. It really stuck with me.

I don't remember the details, but I know 100% that even a tiny bit of bullet setback in a .40 can cause exponential and catastrophic increases in pressure, greatly increasing risk of KB.

1911 is lower pressure, so not as big a deal, but still...it's not a good idea.


This is reason #1,789,003 why you should check, inspect, and replace your EDC / CCW ammo often - maybe 2x per year, depending.

However, if you are something like an LEO or otherwise one who is constantly chambering & unchambering a round, you'd probably want to bump that up to monthly or something more appropriate.

Wait.....re-reading your post....what do you mean you "put your 1911 into condition one before bed" - how the heck do you keep it during the day?

Just either keep it cocked & locked as designed all day, all the time, or keep a different gun for defense.

As you are finding out, constantly chambering, removing, and re-chambering rounds is not good for them.


.

[SkyHawk]

Drop a round in chamber, close slide, break extractor, insert mag NO MORE SETBACK.

FIFY

Don't drop a 1911 slide on a round already chambered.

OP you have not made it clear what you are doing, are you racking a round into the chamber every night? If so you have other problems besides setback. Your primers will eventually crumble and your gun will go click when you need it to go bang. And worse than setback which you can see - you cannot see a crumbled primer.

Several LE agencies put out advisories telling their officers to stop doing this, after some cops got caught in firefights with crumbled pellets from constantly unloading/reloading rounds. Guns went click, including one cop who was in a point blank shootout.

Gwinnet County PD 2012

Gwinnett County Sheriff’s Department
Training Bulletin
January 1, 2012

In September of 2011, a GCPD officer was involved in a situation which quickly became a use of deadly force incident. When the officer made the decision to use deadly force, the chambered round in his duty pistol did not fire. Fortunately, the officer used good tactics, remembered his training and cleared the malfunction, successfully ending the encounter.

The misfired round, which had a full firing pin strike, was collected and was later sent to the manufacturer for analysis. Their analysis showed the following:

“…..the cause of the misfire was determined to be from the primer mix being knocked out of the primer when the round was cycled through the firearm multiple times.”

GCPD also sent an additional 2000 rounds of the Winchester 9mm duty ammunition to the manufacturer. All 2000 rounds were successfully fired.

In discussions with the officer, we discovered that since he has small children at home, he unloads his duty weapon daily. His routine is to eject the chambered round to store the weapon. Prior to returning to duty he chambers the top round in his primary magazine, then takes the previously ejected round and puts it back in the magazine. Those two rounds were repeatedly cycled and had been since duty ammunition was issued in February or March of 2011, resulting in as many as 100 chambering and extracting cycles. This caused an internal failure of the primer, not discernable by external inspection.

This advisory is to inform all sworn personnel that repeated cycling of duty rounds is to be avoided. As a reminder, when loading the weapon, load from the magazine and do not drop the round directly into the chamber. If an officer’s only method of safe home storage is to unload the weapon, the Firearms Training Unit suggests that you unload an entire magazine and rotate those rounds. In addition, you should also rotate through all three duty magazines, so that all 46 duty rounds are cycles, not just a few rounds. A more practical method of home storage is probably to use a trigger lock or a locked storage box.

And another close call - Philly PD 2013:

April 23, 2013
OFFICER SAFETY DUTY AMMUNITION

This officer safety bulletin is being released for officer awareness; the Philadelphia Police Department is publishing an internal Assist Officer Bulletin in light of this information.
The Philadelphia Police Department has identified a potential problem with its .45 caliber ammunition. This defect can cause the ammunition to fail to fire. There has been no official manufacturer’s recall at this time.

Additionally, for the purpose of officer safety, duty ammunition should be inspected regularly for defects and or damage to insure reliability and proper functioning in the officer's weapon.
Background: A Philadelphia Police Officer was involved in a confrontation with an armed suspect. The officer discharged his weapon and two rounds failed to fire. The officer cleared his weapon by using stoppage drills, successfully discharged his weapon, and was not injured.

The Philadelphia Police Department’s Office of Forensic Science, Firearms Identification Unit (PPD/OFS/FIU) examined the officer's weapon and ammunition with the following results:
1. There was no failure of the officer's duty issued Glock Model #2I. The weapon functioned properly.

2. The two (2) Federal HST (Duty Issued Ammo) cartridges, .45 ACP caliber that failed to fire were examined. Both exhibited properly centered and full primer indentations.
Note: It was also determined that each of the cartridges had been chambered and extracted numerous times, based on the observation of multiple extraction markings on the cases. This is most likely due to the daily practice of unloading the firearm.

The preceding bulletin was provided by the Delaware Valley Intelligence Center. Information contained within is not finished
intelligence and has not been formally evaluated by the Intelligence Community. It is being shared for informational or situational
awareness purposes, but has not been integrated with other information, interpreted, or analyzed. This bulletin may contain sensitive or
privileged information and materials, and is not to be released to or shared with the public, media, or other personnel who do not have a
valid need-to-know.

3. Further examination of the two suspect cartridges revealed that the priming compound had migrated from the primer pocket into the powder mixture. There was no evidence of priming compound in the primer cup. The absence of primer was the primary cause of the failure to discharge.

4. Additional cartridges from service ammunition Lot Numbers NOV20T615, N0V20X440, NOV20T454 were examined to determine whether the same primer defect was present
At least one cartridge from each lot, exhibited some level of breakdown of priming compound; however, none were as significant as what was identified in the officer's failed cartridges. With normal use and wear, the primer in these cartridges may have been further dislodged, potentially leading to a failure to fire.

5. Based on this analysis, the failure to fire was caused by the faulty primer compound; however, the issue may have been exacerbated by the multiple chambering and extractions. During routine unloading, the top two cartridges are often repeatedly extracted and allowed to strike the floor. Therefore, these cartridges often exhibit the most wear from daily use.

6. In limited testing of 9mm and .40 caliber (Duty Issued Ammo) cartridges from the same provider and from the same time period, no primer defects were found.

Recommendations to Avoid Future Failures:
Ammunition:
1. The Philadelphia Police Department has opted to replace all .45 caliber ammunition that is currently in use with newly obtained ammunition.
Note: This is a self-imposed replacement policy. There is no information regarding an official manufacturer’s recall.
2. The Firearms Identification Unit will coordinate with the Firearms Training Unit to evaluate a small batch of the newly acquired ammunition to perform a quality assurance check for defective primer.
3. External departments may wish to review any similar ammunition for primer defects to determine the potential need for an internal replacement policy.
Note: The PPD makes no claim as to the general status of ammunition from this manufacturer nor the extent of this defect. This bulletin serves as documentation of the events that have been observed with the PPD issued ammunition. Each department must make its own evaluation of their issued ammunition to determine whether any action is warranted.
Practice & Procedure: All officers are reminded to monitor the condition of their ammunition.
1. Avoid chambering and extraction of the same cartridges multiple times.
This can affect cartridge reliability in several ways:

• Breakdown of primer compound from primer cup, causing failure to fire.
• Bullet recessed into cartridge case, raising chamber pressures to dangerous levels.
• Damage to bullet nose, causing failure to feed or failure to expand.
• Damage to cartridge rim, causing failures to feed or extract.

See Figure B &C: multiple extraction marks and dents.

2. Rotate ammunition in magazine to prevent continuous chambering and extraction of the same cartridges. If possible, extract ammunition in a manner to prevent it from impacting a hard surface.
3. Prevent contact of ammunition with excessive solvents or oils that can deactivate the primer, causing a failure to fire.