Are you upgrading your 1-4 LPVOs?

[DrewN]

run 2 trijicon 1x4 with the German post with green triangles.

German Number 1, the best reticle for game ever. Probably works just as well in other situations. The old standard was 2x7, which sounds pretty useful, yeah?

[Verdha603]

I have one rifle with an older LVPO. Its an 1st gen 1-4. About 5 years old.

I've been revisiting a lot of my gear. Are you guys upgrading your HD/fighting rifles with 1-6/1-8s? Have you felt that it was a worthwhile upgrade for self defense/SHTF?

I'm not sure its a priority, but I do have rifles that could benefit from a hand me down.

Opinions welcome.

I'll admit I must've had good timing because I had just started doing research on LVPO's when Vortex made an announcement that they were going to release their Vortex Strike Eagle 1-6x scope in a few months, so I waited for that to come out and bought it in a combo package with an ADM QD scope mount.

Tossed a cheap throw lever on it and it works great for what I considered my "jack of all trades" rifle. Is it ideal for SD/HD? No, considering a red dot is usually lighter and better for close range, but I was looking for versatility instead of specialty. The etched reticle makes it easy for my eye to pick up the reticle considering I get to deal with moderate astigmatism, which makes most red dots the bane of my existence, and when I have it ready at home its cranked at 1/1.1x while when I hit the range it gets cranked up to 6x and makes it very easy to put rounds onto steel plates at 400 or 500 yards.

[sbo80]

I run a 1-6 and can't imagine going to a 1-8 or 1-10. Even at 6x, unless I'm well supported it's pointless. If I really needed 8x or 10x for what I was doing with the rifle, I'd choose a 4-14 or something and expect to be rested only. I'd even choose a red dot with 3x or 4x flip magnifier before a 1-8. But that's just because of what I intend to need to use the rifle for.

[jsigone]

Was excuse to build another rifle but used trijicon 1-8 scope with rmr on the offset. 34mm tube is heavy but the glass is so nice!

I still have my 6 yr old bcm build with pst 1-4. Shot out to about 400 yards with that scope dialing in the distance.

[k1dude]

Some of you don't realize the versatility of 1-10x FFP. Not only can it suffice for CQB or 3-gun, but also taking 1,000 yard shots on torso sized targets or 250 yard ground squirrel shots.

The reason I prefer FFP, is because I'd also use it in 3-gun which is limited to 4x magnification. So I can throw it from 1 to 4 and still make a 250 yard shot on a small spring popper. If it were SFP, I wouldn't likely hit the target.

It would also make a nice hunting scope if it were light enough.

Also, sometimes you have to back off of max magnification due to low light, fisheye, resolution, chromatic aberration, or any other number of other undesirable characteristics that often happen at max magnification. You might have to back off to 6x or 8x to get the sight picture you need to make the shot. Good luck doing that with a SFP, especially if it's a long shot or a small target.

There are good reasons for a LPVO with 10x. Although I wouldn't call 10x low power. So perhaps they need a new class of scopes called Medium Powered Variable Optics to describe a 1-10x.

Also, according to early reports, the size of the reticle/crosshairs don't get out of control when at max magnification. I haven't looked through one yet, so I can't verify if that's true or not.

[MarikinaMan]

Some of you don't realize the versatility of 1-10x FFP. Not only can it suffice for CQB or 3-gun, but also taking 1,000 yard shots on torso sized targets or 250 yard ground squirrel shots.

The reason I prefer FFP, is because I'd also use it in 3-gun which is limited to 4x magnification. So I can throw it from 1 to 4 and still make a 250 yard shot on a small spring popper. If it were SFP, I wouldn't likely hit the target.

It would also make a nice hunting scope if it were light enough.

Also, sometimes you have to back off of max magnification due to low light, fisheye, resolution, chromatic aberration, or any other number of other undesirable characteristics that often happen at max magnification. You might have to back off to 6x or 8x to get the sight picture you need to make the shot. Good luck doing that with a SFP, especially if it's a long shot or a small target.

There are good reasons for a LPVO with 10x. Although I wouldn't call 10x low power. So perhaps they need a new class of scopes called Medium Powered Variable Optics to describe a 1-10x.

Also, according to early reports, the size of the reticle/crosshairs don't get out of control when at max magnification. I haven't looked through one yet, so I can't verify if that's true or not.

I own FFPs and SFPs. With an LPVO, I dont see the need for FFP due to the weight penalty and that the reticle is useless, on a 1-4, at 1-2 and barely at 3 power.

I’m not sure why your can’t hit with an SFP at medium and long range. The only use of an FFP to me is to range at distance and to fine tune the turret in the middle ranges. I don’t find myself doing that on a carbine. When it comes to hitting stuff, SFP is fine on a 1-4. Maybe, the 1-10 will be different, but I fully expect the reticle to be useless well into 7x and up. At which point, just max it out.

[HKAllTheThings]

Some of you don't realize the versatility of 1-10x FFP. Not only can it suffice for CQB or 3-gun, but also taking 1,000 yard shots on torso sized targets or 250 yard ground squirrel shots.

The reason I prefer FFP, is because I'd also use it in 3-gun which is limited to 4x magnification. So I can throw it from 1 to 4 and still make a 250 yard shot on a small spring popper. If it were SFP, I wouldn't likely hit the target.

It would also make a nice hunting scope if it were light enough.

Also, sometimes you have to back off of max magnification due to low light, fisheye, resolution, chromatic aberration, or any other number of other undesirable characteristics that often happen at max magnification. You might have to back off to 6x or 8x to get the sight picture you need to make the shot. Good luck doing that with a SFP, especially if it's a long shot or a small target.

There are good reasons for a LPVO with 10x. Although I wouldn't call 10x low power. So perhaps they need a new class of scopes called Medium Powered Variable Optics to describe a 1-10x.

Also, according to early reports, the size of the reticle/crosshairs don't get out of control when at max magnification. I haven't looked through one yet, so I can't verify if that's true or not.

When did 3-gun limit magnification to 4X?

[SloChicken]

Some of you don't realize the versatility of 1-10x FFP. Not only can it suffice for CQB or 3-gun, but also taking 1,000 yard shots on torso sized targets or 250 yard ground squirrel shots.

The reason I prefer FFP, is because I'd also use it in 3-gun which is limited to 4x magnification. So I can throw it from 1 to 4 and still make a 250 yard shot on a small spring popper. If it were SFP, I wouldn't likely hit the target.

It would also make a nice hunting scope if it were light enough.

Also, sometimes you have to back off of max magnification due to low light, fisheye, resolution, chromatic aberration, or any other number of other undesirable characteristics that often happen at max magnification. You might have to back off to 6x or 8x to get the sight picture you need to make the shot. Good luck doing that with a SFP, especially if it's a long shot or a small target.

There are good reasons for a LPVO with 10x. Although I wouldn't call 10x low power. So perhaps they need a new class of scopes called Medium Powered Variable Optics to describe a 1-10x.

Also, according to early reports, the size of the reticle/crosshairs don't get out of control when at max magnification. I haven't looked through one yet, so I can't verify if that's true or not.

I don’t agree with much of any of this, no offense.

As for a FFP reticle, if you aren’t using the graduations for your dope it is kind of pointless.

Further, on a 1-10x scope, that reticle will occupy 10x the sight picture that it did at 1x.
That is going to be some pretty darned thick crosshairs - or unrecognizable at 1x as mentioned above. Can’t have it both ways, simple as that.

Further, there isn’t much need for hashes on a low power scope IMO, simply the bullet drop isn’t there where the scope is designed yo be used.

Further, I can’t think of any reason I would have a 1x on a rifle that has any business reaching out to 1k yds.

As for not being able to hit a target with a SFP at 10x that is nonsense. The reticle is the same size at 1x as at 10x as to what your eye sees. If you can see it at 1x certainly you can see it at 10x, not only that, you can see more of your target since the reticle itself hasn’t ballooned to 10x its original size.

There is a place for FFP, but on a 1x-xx scope I just can’t see any sensibility for it except Tacticool or for the manufacturer to extract money.

[sigstroker]

I just picked up a 1-6 strike eagle with the upgraded bdc3 reticle. I haven't shot it yet but it looks great. There is a big markup to get to 8x or 10x . While they review great at that price range you really need to be shooting a caliber that can make use of it at those longer ranges.

The 1-8 Strike Eagle is close in price to the 1-6. I have one of each.

For the non Tactical cool. They reason these scopes are popular is they can offer a true 1x so essentially a red dot but quickly go out to 6x, 8x or even 10x . All is like putting a magnifier on that red dot but much higher magnification and a higher quality reticle. Looking at weight and cost these lpvo should end the magnifier market.

Not hardly. LPVO's have been around for quite a few years, and there are still new magnifiers being developed and sold.

[Uncivil Engineer]

1-6x is $299. 1-8x is $399. . The extra 100$ or 30% wasn't really worth it to me. Unfortunately I don't really have access to longer ranges where that extra power will help.

Now I'm sure you can find this or that on sale but if there is a sale on one we often see the same deal on the other.

The market will settle the discussion on what will win out in the end. I don't think either option will go away rather it looks like me to that good quality , reasonable price lpvos will have a large niche.

[sigstroker]

Some of you don't realize the versatility of 1-10x FFP. Not only can it suffice for CQB or 3-gun, but also taking 1,000 yard shots on torso sized targets or 250 yard ground squirrel shots.

The reason I prefer FFP, is because I'd also use it in 3-gun which is limited to 4x magnification. So I can throw it from 1 to 4 and still make a 250 yard shot on a small spring popper. If it were SFP, I wouldn't likely hit the target.

Why not? I've shot at 400 yard steel with my SFP Strike Eagle. It has a BDC, and I can't see why the reticle wouldn't work on a squirrel at 4x at 250 any differently than if it were FFP.

Also, sometimes you have to back off of max magnification due to low light, fisheye, resolution, chromatic aberration, or any other number of other undesirable characteristics that often happen at max magnification. You might have to back off to 6x or 8x to get the sight picture you need to make the shot. Good luck doing that with a SFP, especially if it's a long shot or a small target.

What's the difference? The reticle stays the same size at lower power. It's probably easier to use at low power than a FFP.

[k1dude]

The weight penalty on 1-10x FFP vs SFP gets smaller than on lower powered scopes.

You should read up on what happens to your POA and POI when you don't shoot at the manufacturer's suggested sight-in magnification. Depending on the shot, it's the difference between a hit and a miss. The spread can be quite large.

As I said, according to reports, there's no problems with the reticle marks at max magnification. If there was, you'd be hearing about it all over.

[k1dude]

When did 3-gun limit magnification to 4X?

I shoot a lot of small club matches that aren't affiliated with any national 3-gun organization. They're have their own club rules. They're sort of stuck in the stone age and limit magnification to 4x.

There's no limit to magnification that I'm aware of in USPSA 3-gun. But you'll never spend the extra time throwing all the way to 10x. You'll throw it quickly to somewhere in the middle and take your shots. That's why even in USPSA, a FFP would be preferred - unless your shots are close or the target is large. But then you could be caught with the wrong equipment at any given match.

[k1dude]

Where did I say I don't use the gradiations?

With a 10x, you won't even see the crosshairs at 1x, they're too fine. All you'll see is the illuminated ring and dot, or horseshoe dot, or horseshoe chevron. You might have a few illuminated BDC dots.

The fine lines and hashmarks only begin to appear when you begin to magnify. At max magnification, the illuminated ring and most dots will be gone. As I said, I haven't handled one personally, I can only go off of reports of people that have.

Once again, I suggest you read up on how a SFP scope will affect your POA vs POI depending on magnification. It's the difference between a hit and a miss depending on range and size of target. The delta can be quite large.

[Dr. Peter Venkman]

You have to decide if spending $2K on an additional 6x worth of magnification for your intended purposes is worth it. No more, no less.