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Is a safe required for CA?

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  • #16
    divingin
    Veteran Member
    • Jul 2015
    • 2522

    Originally posted by Librarian
    Now, if your partner should happen to be a prohibited person, a trigger lock will work, but much more ambitious precautions are required.
    I understand what you're saying, but this statement makes no sense. If [solution A] works, then no further precautions are required. If further precautions are required, then [solution A] did not work.

    I am not an attorney, and this is not legal advice.

    To be clear, this conversation has two parts that have not been well-defined: Requirements for transfer, and requirements for storage (and, if you want to be technical, possibilities of actions occurring from the latter.)

    Transfer of a firearm in California requires a locking device: Either a CA approved gun lock in possession at the time of transfer, or "proof" of a valid safe (an affidavit is considered proof, I believe.) As far as I am aware, there is no requirement to actually use the device to take possession of the firearm; you just have to possess it at that moment.

    To store a firearm in California (just that - storage) there is no requirement. You may store a firearm on your kitchen counter should you so desire. Even if you have kids, it's legal as long as nothing else happens.

    Now, if you choose to store a firearm, and something else happens (kid or prohibited person gets hold of it, kid has an accident, kid removes the firearm to a public place, etc.) you may be guilty of a crime.

    Prohibited person in the house changes that to "must be secured during storage".

    To my knowledge, those are the legalities as written.

    Wisdom would dictate securing firearms against theft at a minimum (meaning lockbox or safe), securing from kids, etc. Each owner decides what precautions are and aren't suitable for their situation, much like any other kind of risk mitigation.

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    • #17
      Librarian
      Admin and Poltergeist
      CGN Contributor - Lifetime
      • Oct 2005
      • 44685

      Originally posted by divingin
      I understand what you're saying, but this statement makes no sense. If [solution A] works, then no further precautions are required. If further precautions are required, then [solution A] did not work.
      I must have been too brief.

      In this case [solution A, a trigger lock] is appropriate for the narrow situation of securing the firearm.

      By law as quoted, the lock suffices to prevent access to a firearm to a speculative prohibited person (NOT the situation here!). But with a prohibited person, granting/allowing access to the firearm to the prohibited person can be charged as a crime - the situation is much broader than merely ordinary care to secure a firearm. One's overall behavior must be more circumspect, and the prohibited person must also not have access to ammunition, magazines, etc.

      Thus my "more ambitious precautions are required." comment.
      ARCHIVED Calguns Foundation Wiki here: http://web.archive.org/web/201908310...itle=Main_Page

      Frozen in 2015, it is falling out of date and I can no longer edit the content. But much of it is still good!

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      • #18
        Jeepergeo
        Veteran Member
        • Feb 2012
        • 3507

        Originally posted by TurboChrisB
        So for all the years YOU had firearms and no safe.....you were a irresponsible gun owner?
        When the average Joe and Jane started demonizing firearms and the Dem/Lib/Union politician-appointed judges started siding with Joe and Jane, then yes, all responsible gun owners obtained a safe of some sort to secure their firearms when they were not under their immediate control. That all occurred about 25 years ago, so yeah, all responsible gun owners have a safe.
        Benefactor Life Member, National Rifle Association
        Life Member, California Rifle and Pistol Association

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        • #19
          mythfit
          Junior Member
          • Oct 2010
          • 45

          At Sportsman's Warehouse in Sacramento (Rancho Cordova) I was required to fill out a form stating I have a gun safe in my home. I had to tell them what brand, type, and if it was CA approved. This was last December. I had purchased a Henry AR7 and a Walther P22CA.

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          • #20
            bergmen
            Senior Member
            • May 2011
            • 2493

            Originally posted by The War Wagon
            A Stack-On cabinet passes muster...
            Yeah but they can be popped open in 5 seconds with a crow bar (very, very weak locking mechanism).

            Dan

            Comment

            • #21
              kmas
              Senior Member
              • Nov 2014
              • 1315

              Ideally you'll get a quality safe to store guns, but CA won't insist.

              Comment

              • #22
                sfvshooter
                Senior Member
                • Jan 2016
                • 1200

                Originally posted by ls2gto
                Household of 2 adults (one is my partner), is a DOJ safety device sufficient for a rifle, or will this need to be used in combination with a safe?
                I don't think you need one for a pistol, but it might be required for a rifle. I've bought and sold a few of both and I'm always asked to provide the make/model of my safe when I buy a long gun. I don't recall the form name/number, but I've filled it out for long gun sales.
                Too many rifles, not enough time...

                Comment

                • #23
                  Harry Ono
                  Senior Member
                  • Jul 2018
                  • 965

                  Originally posted by Librarian
                  No safe is required. Generally, CA does not regulate storage by individuals.

                  Now, if your partner should happen to be a prohibited person, a trigger lock will work, but much more ambitious precautions are required.

                  PC 25135 Also, ammunition, including reloading components, and magazines, speed loaders, and other ammunition feeding devices must be kept locked away from prohibited persons.
                  (4) The firearm is maintained within a locked trunk.

                  Would a pad locked foot locker qualify as locked trunk?

                  Comment

                  • #24
                    Librarian
                    Admin and Poltergeist
                    CGN Contributor - Lifetime
                    • Oct 2005
                    • 44685

                    Originally posted by Harry Ono
                    (4) The firearm is maintained within a locked trunk.

                    Would a pad locked foot locker qualify as locked trunk?
                    In most gun discussions, 'trunk' usually means 'trunk of an automobile'.

                    A padlocked trunk, as in 'footlocker', would qualify as a locked container, suitable for transporting a handgun in the 'locked' aspect.
                    ARCHIVED Calguns Foundation Wiki here: http://web.archive.org/web/201908310...itle=Main_Page

                    Frozen in 2015, it is falling out of date and I can no longer edit the content. But much of it is still good!

                    Comment

                    • #25
                      duenor
                      Vendor/Retailer
                      • Mar 2007
                      • 4617

                      I had all my guns stolen when I was 24 because I had no safe. The theif had no tools, he couldn't even get into a locked file cabinet. But I was stupid and had my ar and 1022 under my bed. That was in 2003. I've always had safes since. My current safe is from west coast safe and cost 1k. That's not much more than the cost of just my pc9, glass, and bipod.
                      Entreprise Arms - FFL 07 manufacturer of CA-Legal FAL type rifles in Baldwin Park, CA.
                      EAI IMBEL-FAL 7.62x51 NATO, CA Legal: $999 shipped www.entreprise.com
                      SIG, Beretta, Glock, XD, HK Tritium GS sights

                      "Opinions posted in this account are my own and not the approved position of any organization."

                      Comment

                      • #26
                        Bangzoom
                        Calguns Addict
                        • Jul 2012
                        • 6791

                        so I did a PPT today for a n SKS...the guy said the buyer needed a lock...i said he can sign a safe affidavit ...the guy said the safe must be on the approved list and he has to prove he owns it...WTF??? I have never had to prove I owned my safe...so he had to shell out bucks for a lock even though he has a safe

                        is this a new thing??

                        Comment

                        • #27
                          Jess B. Guy
                          Senior Member
                          • Jul 2011
                          • 627

                          People, get a damn safe!

                          Comment

                          • #28
                            Librarian
                            Admin and Poltergeist
                            CGN Contributor - Lifetime
                            • Oct 2005
                            • 44685

                            Originally posted by Bangzoom
                            so I did a PPT today for a n SKS...the guy said the buyer needed a lock...i said he can sign a safe affidavit ...the guy said the safe must be on the approved list and he has to prove he owns it...WTF??? I have never had to prove I owned my safe...so he had to shell out bucks for a lock even though he has a safe

                            is this a new thing??
                            It's something that FFL employee (or his employer) is making up, so it's 'new' in that sense.

                            See the DOJ page on safety devices, https://oag.ca.gov/firearms/fsdcertlist/ and https://oag.ca.gov/firearms/gunsafe

                            'Safes' are different from 'lock boxes', and have their own section on the safe affidavit.
                            ARCHIVED Calguns Foundation Wiki here: http://web.archive.org/web/201908310...itle=Main_Page

                            Frozen in 2015, it is falling out of date and I can no longer edit the content. But much of it is still good!

                            Comment

                            • #29
                              Bangzoom
                              Calguns Addict
                              • Jul 2012
                              • 6791

                              Originally posted by Librarian
                              It's something that FFL employee (or his employer) is making up, so it's 'new' in that sense.

                              See the DOJ page on safety devices, https://oag.ca.gov/firearms/fsdcertlist/ and https://oag.ca.gov/firearms/gunsafe

                              'Safes' are different from 'lock boxes', and have their own section on the safe affidavit.
                              Thank you!!!...I have told the buyer to demand his money back on the lock

                              I always appreciate your legal knowledge

                              Comment

                              • #30
                                BigPimping
                                CGN Contributor
                                • Feb 2010
                                • 21473

                                A safe is not required. A lot is.
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                                PIMP stands for Positive Intellectual Motivated Person

                                When pimping begins, friendship ends.

                                Don't let your history be a mystery

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