"as new"

[boattail]

I am asking the members here what the term "as new" means to them when purchasing a firearm. I recently bought a gun marked "as new". The gun was staged to look like it was brand new with the forcing cone being machined clean to new appearance, the incomplete and not original box was not brought out at time of sale, and my receipt was listed "as new". In that box was the fired case indicating the gun was 7.5 years old.

I made the mistake of not reading every line on the DROS when asked to verify it was all correct. It listed the gun as "used."

Doing my research I find that the NRA standard for "as new" is as much as a previously sold at retail gun but still in new condition in every aspect.

When I brought this up to the gun shop they told me their definition of "as new" is "a fancy way to say used gun". The shop also told me a gun could be fired as much as anyone wanted and still be called "new".

My feeling is this shop is very underhanded. I have bought and sold dozens of guns in my life and this experience has me shaking my head at the underhandedness of the business.

I still blame myself for missing the line on the DROS that said used but when the gun is labeled "as new" it should be just that....not an old used gun.

[EMR]

[wpage]

Do you have a image of machined cone?

[warbird]

To me "as new" would be a gun that was purchased but never fired. Since it was sold at least one time it is a used gun whether it was fired or not in my mind. ten guys could have owned it and never shot it. I buy a 1911 and put it away. Later on I decide i do not want it and go to sell it. since I never fired the gun but it was drosed to me i would call it "as new or like new". Same rules as new cars except there are no test miles allowed (LOL).

[DEPUTYBILL]

Have you shot it yet? Did you find any function problems yet?
Some of the best guns I own are old, used guns.

[boattail]

Have not shot it yet. As to the forcing cone there are visible machine marks where it was cleaned up. I'll try to get a photoup....

[boattail]

Sorry for the giant image.....but you can see the machine marks on the cone. The ends of the cylinder have evidence that it has been fired in all of them. Seems odd they would clean up the cone like that.

I think the gun will shoot fine but I have not done that yet. My interest is the shady way it was sold to me. I know of no other shops that have the policy that "as new" is a fancy way of saying used. They have other guns marked as used, new, as new....so why the fake out?

By the way the shop is Old West Gun and Loan in Redding.

edit....I have to run off to work and will check back later tonight....thanks for the reply's so far.

[NoHeavyHitter]

"As new" is a firearm that was purchased at retail, and stored / maintained in that condition.

[tomk556]

Can you even DROS a gun as anything other than new or used? You sure they machined the forcing cones and it didn't come from the factory all jacked up? To me there's really only new and used. Maybe I'd add like "pretty good almost new used" vs. "fine shooter but sat in a holster for a dozen years as a duty gun and shot 10,000 used."

If I was shown an "as new" gun that I thought had work like that done, I'd probably walk. Again, not my definitions, but I would want a gun sold as "as new" to have like 100 rounds through it and be immaculate cosmetically.

[strakill]

Makes me think of "as good as new" meaning used.

[jeffrice6]

As new or like new always means USED.

[cgseanp1]

As new or like new always means USED.

Yep.

Was this a consignment gun?

[357manny]

new = new
used = used
as new = used
as is = used
BNIB = brand new in box, should be unfired/pristine
LNIB = like new in box, should/could be fired 20, 500, or 1500 times, depending on the seller


Used requires inspection of whatever you care about on the firearm. Depending on how much you care about how used it is (is it worn, have marks, bubba scratches (home/diy gunsmithing?). Inspection is up to the buyer, usually shops don't try to sell any customers short, but sometimes a PPT could be "misrepresented".

I'd take it up with them if you have a real problem with it. Not sure whether they can do anything, but good to let them know you're not satisfied, as a longtime customer.

[SkyHawk]

"As new" always means USED. I never understood it to mean anything else. I have bought many such used guns.

And even if you bought a 50 year old 1911 that had never been shot and was brand new in every respect, the DROS would still say "used".

And forcing cones usually have machine marks from the factory. I have never heard of someone machining a forcing cone to 'look' new on a revolver. You can't hide slop, bad timing, endshake or a deep drag line around the cylinder. So no one is going to machine a forcing cone on a beat up revolver to 'stage' it to look new.

I think you can toss the idea of the forcing cone being machined to stage the gun. It may have been well cleaned, but almost certainly not machined.

So now that we have established your understanding of 'as new' was in error, the forcing cone was probably not staged, and the shop was in all likelihood not trying to be underhanded - answer these questions and get on down the ramp to enjoying your new gun:

1) Is the gun in good shape?
2) Are you happy with the price you paid?

[Barang]

new is new.
as new is like new condition.