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WTB Oakhurst stamped CZ firearms
WTB 12 gauge Wingmasters -
Looks like a Cartel gun from one of their Mexican gun manufacturing garages. even has MX on the serial. And aztec graphics, not Philipines. The Philipinos could at least get the numbers stamped straight.Last edited by CaliforniaCowboy; 10-26-2019, 1:01 AM.https://thedeplorablepatriot.com/
"A Holocaust survivor dies of old age, when he gets to heaven he tells God a Holocaust joke. God says, That isn't funny. The Old man tells God, well, I guess you had to be there."Comment
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I'm of the distinct opinion that SkyHawk won the interwebs on this one. The extractor shape/location-.....lanyard hole lower left side of butt-.... distinctive rear sight adj screws.....safety style,..... etc, etc, etc
I believe, [but not positive] that all the 1911ish STARS after the 1921 and 1922 had frame scallops at the trigger.
Would bet 50 Mexican pesos [$2.62] that it spent time in Mexico before crossing the border.
The model P has a totally different grip frame. Scallop cuts at trigger-.....finger stop at frnt bottom of grip-.....arched main spring housing-.....safety. etc, etc, etcComment
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Obregon?When You Go Home, Tell Them Of Us And Say,
For Their Tomorrow, We Gave Our Today"Comment
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Almost 100% chance this is NOT a 1922 as there is no grip safety, it has adjustable sights, and 1922 was not produced in .45 acp. If you look at the first picture in OP, you can see where it was stamped <Espana> and STAR, but appears to be lacking the STAR crest (there is no room) and <STAR> stamp (no brackets). Model A dumped the grip safety and added adjustable sights. Model B had a rounded back strap. First Model A had T extractor, second model had rounded. This would have to be a Second Model A made for export in .45 with no significant numbers produced, and to my knowledge, no known examples. Obviously came from Mexico given the grips and MX import #.
1922>First Model A>Second Model A
First model P’s had a straight back strap, no pinky stop, and some did receive the round extractor. They also had adjustable rear sight, and came from the factory in .45acp. You are confusing first and second model P’s. Other than the lanyard hole (unsure if First Model P had them), an early Model P checks all of the boxes that the Second Model A does, plus it’s 45 from the factory.
Last edited by Quickdraw559; 10-26-2019, 9:10 AM.WTB Oakhurst stamped CZ firearms
WTB 12 gauge WingmastersComment
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Help with ID
Thanks for all the help.
It is 45 acp. Have fired exactly 2 rounds thru it. 1st round failed to eject. The extractor will eject the round by hand but will not eject after fired.
2nd round also did not eject and the takedown lever fell out and the slide shot out onto the ground about 5 feet in front of me. After that did not even want to try to adjust the extractor. This thing is dangerous and doesn't look to be worth investing money into. Just curious what this wore out gun is.
Thank you for all the help!Comment
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Almost 100% chance this is NOT a 1922 as there is no grip safety, it has adjustable sights, and 1922 was not produced in .45 acp. If you look at the first picture in OP, you can see where it was stamped <Espana> and STAR, but appears to be lacking the STAR crest (there is no room) and <STAR> stamp (no brackets). Model A dumped the grip safety and added adjustable sights. Model B had a rounded back strap. First Model A had T extractor, second model had rounded. This would have to be a Second Model A made for export in .45 with no significant numbers produced, and to my knowledge, no known examples. Obviously came from Mexico given the grips and MX import #.
1922>First Model A>Second Model A
First model P’s had a straight back strap, no pinky stop, and some did receive the round extractor. They also had adjustable rear sight, and came from the factory in .45acp. You are confusing first and second model P’s. Other than the lanyard hole (unsure if First Model P had them), an early Model P checks all of the boxes that the Second Model A does, plus it’s 45 from the factory.
Errrr, the Model 1922 did not have a grip safety - it was one of the improvements to the model 1921.
It looks in every respect to be a model 1922, which did have that simple adjusting rear sight - you can find hundreds of pics on Google. The simple adjust on the rear sight was added first to the Model 1921, and carried over to the model 1922.
When the Model 1922 became the first A model, when they started making them for commercial consumption, it got the rear tangent sight.
Any variations to the slide markings from a normal model 1922, could be explained by the fact it was intended for export as a 45acp (see chart below).
If you look here, it says some (very few!) model 1920 and 1921 were made in 45 acp for export. You will almost never find any discussion of them and most people would argue they did not exist. But here we are.
Now if you think this record is 100% complete and only model 1920 and model 1921 were converted, then we can stop there. But I accept the strong possibility that this record is not complete - as many old gun records are not, and that some model 1922s, maybe very early in the transition from 1921 to 1922 were also made in 45acp: Really it is not a stretch of the imagination, especially considering that OP actually has one.Last edited by SkyHawk; 10-26-2019, 9:39 AM.Comment
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Help with ID
Thank you Skyhawk.
I would agree. My gun looks identical to the 1922 pic. There are NO caliber markings on the barrel but I have fired 45 acp from this pistol.
The gun is terribly worn
I would like to find some original wood grips to install so I can get rid of the
"Aztec" grips.
Thanks for all your help.Comment
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I agree that I was mistaken on the grip safety, but the rest of your post is back and forth, both confirming it’s not a 1922 and claiming it is with both correct and incorrect information regarding the extractors, sights, and markings.Errrr, the Model 1922 did not have a grip safety - it was one of the improvements to the model 1921.
It looks in every respect to be a model 1922, which did have that simple adjusting rear sight - you can find hundreds of pics on Google. The simple adjust on the rear sight was added first to the Model 1921, and carried over to the model 1922.
When the Model 1922 became the first A model, when they started making them for commercial consumption, it got the rear tangent sight.
Any variations to the slide markings from a normal model 1922, could be explained by the fact it was intended for export as a 45acp (see chart below).
If you look here, it says some (very few!) model 1920 and 1921 were made in 45 acp for export. You will almost never find any discussion of them and most people would argue they did not exist. But here we are.
Now if you think this record is 100% complete and only model 1920 and model 1921 were converted, then we can stop there. But I accept the strong possibility that this record is not complete - as many old gun records are not, and that some model 1922s, maybe very early in the transition from 1921 to 1922 were also made in 45acp: Really it is not a stretch of the imagination, especially considering that OP actually has one.
1a. Can you explain to me why you think this is a 1922 and not a First Model A?
1b. Can you explain to me why you think this is a 1922 and not a Second Model A?
2. Can you explain to me why you think this is a 1922 and not a First Model P?
I don’t see how you can come to the conclusion that this is a one of a kind, never been seen 1922 with no production records or known examples when there are other models that more adequately cover bases and check boxes that we know exist.Last edited by Quickdraw559; 10-26-2019, 10:21 AM.WTB Oakhurst stamped CZ firearms
WTB 12 gauge WingmastersComment
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I never said it is a one of a kind, please don't exaggerate my words. 'Very rare' does not mean 'one of a kind'. We can't have a discussion if you are going to try and put words in my mouth.
A first model A is just a commercial Model 1922. So tomato - tomatoe. Maybe it is a first model A and maybe it is a model 1922. If you think the distinction is important, maybe you can explain the difference and back it up with photos and links. And the caliber chart also does not show any 45acp Model A, so if you think it was a model A you would also have to accept it must be rare and a gun that is not well documented.
The second model As that I have seen have a tangent sight -OP does not. Again, if you have links and pics that show a 2nd model A looks like this, please post them.
The model P examples that I have seen have a different grip frame (with a pinky rest ledge) and different thumb safety, perhaps among other differences. If you have links that show otherwise, post them.Last edited by SkyHawk; 10-26-2019, 10:57 AM.Comment
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I think you need a better title on this thread.Comment
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