LGS not doing ammo transfers

[Wordupmybrotha]

Cutting off your nose to spite the LGS...

[Comedian]

Cutting off your nose to spite the LGS...

Care to elaborate?

[Dvrjon]

Side question regarding FFL law:

Since FFL are required to process PPT based on inventory (i.e. if they also sell handguns they shall process handgun PPT), are they allowed to require an appointment?

I called Sportsman's Arms in Petaluma a few hours before driving from the peninsula to do a PPT. They never said anything about appointments. I get there and these 2 guys were total jerks. They kept talking over me saying I never called, and if I had they definitely would have told me to make one. Needless to say I will never be returning. I drove 2 1/2 hours.. luckily Petaluma Reloading Supply processed it.

The Attorney General explained the Firearm PPT process to FFLs some years ago.

Firearms dealers are required to conduct private party transfers
pursuant to Penal Code section 12071(b)(5). Dealers may not limit
the days or hours in which private party transfers are conducted.

12071(b)(5)The licensee shall agree to and shall act properly and promptly in processing firearms transactions pursuant to Section 12082.

That section is now PC 26825, under ARTICLE 2. Grounds for Forfeiture of License [26800 - 26915]. That does away with the concept of having an appointment, unless all firearms sales at that FFL are appointment only.

Enjoy.

[Dvrjon]

Just reading the Prop 63 document was hard because so many paragraphs had things crossed out and re-written.

I'm far from a lawyer and really haven't even tried interpreting laws... but wow is California gun law complicated...

Cross-outs indicate existing language being deleted; underlines indicate new language being inserted.

[flyer898]

Assuming the law, initiative or legislature passed statute requires FFLs to process ammunition transfers the same way they have to process private party transfers, I think it is susceptible to challenge on First Amendment grounds. For ammo, the consent argument is much weaker because it is a requirement added to the licensee’s required duties after the fact.
For myself, I will obey the law, for now. Moving to Nevada has possibly delayed my personal civil disobedience. I have no criticism those with a different opinion.

[pacrat]

Assuming the law, initiative or legislature passed statute requires FFLs to process ammunition transfers the same way they have to process private party transfers, I think it is susceptible to challenge on First Amendment grounds.
For myself, I will obey the law, for now. Moving to Nevada has possibly delayed my personal civil disobedience. I have no criticism those with a different opinion.

As to the bolded in your quote. Response has to be "NOT REALLY". Because a FFL, must now also apply, and be granted, an "Ammunition Vendors License" in order to comply with prop 63 additions to statute.

Hence, the "extra duties" falls under a requirement of the "Ammunition Vendors" license. Not in addition to the FFL license.

[CheapBloke]

Only exemptions to the requirement to utilize a CA DOJ licensed ammunition vendor or CA FFL dealer to facilitate the transfer of ownership of ammunition are: [PC 30312(c)]

08. Transfer to a "consultant-evaluator". [PC 30312(c)(8)]

Question:

Can't we all be considered Consultants/Evaluators?
We do consult each other on firearms and ammo, and evaluate each other's firearm and ammo choices, therefore be able to cut the middle man out?

[Mayor McRifle]

Question:

Can't we all be considered Consultants/Evaluators?
We do consult each other on firearms and ammo, and evaluate each other's firearm and ammo choices, therefore be able to cut the middle man out?

No.

[Dvrjon]

As to the bolded in your quote. Response has to be "NOT REALLY". Because a FFL, must now also apply, and be granted, an "Ammunition Vendors License" in order to comply with prop 63 additions to statute.

Hence, the "extra duties" falls under a requirement of the "Ammunition Vendors" license. Not in addition to the FFL license.

A clarification: FFLs need not apply for the Ammo Vendor license. It is statutorily granted on the basis of the FFL and their compliance with the ammunition control statutes.

PEN 16151(b)

(b) Commencing January 1, 2018, a firearms dealer licensed pursuant to Sections 26700 to 26915, inclusive, shall automatically be deemed a licensed ammunition vendor, provided the dealer complies with the requirements of Articles 2 (commencing with Section 30300) and 3 (commencing with Section 30342) of Chapter 1 of Division 10 of Title 4.

If When FFLs take the actions necessary to comply with the ammunition sales/transfer controls, it would appear that they are explicitly agreeing to compliance with all elements of the statute in addition to their FFL duties under law.

[Quiet]

Question:

Can't we all be considered Consultants/Evaluators?
We do consult each other on firearms and ammo, and evaluate each other's firearm and ammo choices, therefore be able to cut the middle man out?

No.

"consultant-evaluator" is a profession that requires a valid COE and documentation from a FFL establishing their business relationship to test & evaluate firearms for the FFL.

[L.A. Saiga]

OP,
There are MANY excellent FFLS here on CG
Perhaps, post in the FFL section that you need an ammo transfer near you
Good Luck

[Comedian]

A clarification: FFLs need not apply for the Ammo Vendor license. It is statutorily granted on the basis of the FFL and their compliance with the ammunition control statutes.

PEN 16151(b) If FFLs take the actions necessary to comply with the ammunition sales/transfer controls, it would appear that they are explicitly agreeing to compliance with all elements of the statute in addition to their FFL duties under law.

If. In these cases, they are playing dumb. That’s all 3 local gun stores near me, playing dumb. The guidelines are laid out clearly, yet they (all 3 LGS head staff/manager) say there are none. I am betting they do this because they make no money on PPAT.. one less store inventory to sell, as well as most gun accessories being had online cheaper..
Petaluma Reloading Supplies actually told me so, they plan on trying to charge fees for PPAT because it hurt their business. So FFL down here play dumb to be able to say no..
Assuming the shall in the law requires them to do PPAT.

OP,
There are MANY excellent FFLS here on CG
Perhaps, post in the FFL section that you need an ammo transfer near you
Good Luck

Yes that is a good idea, thanks. I know UGI is in Fremont.

[Dvrjon]

If. In these cases, they are playing dumb. That’s all 3 local gun stores near me, playing dumb.

The “if” means "when" they undertake the process of selling ammo under the provisions of the law, not “if” they decide to do PPT of ammo.

The guidelines are laid out clearly, yet they (all 3 LGS head staff/manager) say there are none. I am betting they do this because they make no money on PPAT.. one less store inventory to sell, as well as most gun accessories being had online cheaper..
Petaluma Reloading Supplies actually told me so, they plan on trying to charge fees for PPAT because it hurt their business. So FFL down here play dumb to be able to say no..
Assuming the shall in the law requires them to do PPAT.

Regulations allow them to charge a nice fat $5 for PP ammo transfers.

[Comedian]

Regulations allow them to charge a nice fat $5 for PP ammo transfers.

Good to know the amount, thanks.