Ammo lost in transit

[trivee]

So I placed a couple of ammo orders online last week (as a C&R+CoE holder, to get in before the July 1st deadline). All the packages arrived today:

- $400 worth of ammo from J&G Sales was sent by UPS. Picked up a severely damaged package at UPS in Sunnyvale - hesitated whether to refuse the shipment or not, decided not to. Out of 20 boxes ordered, I received 9 and a half. The rest disappeared without trace at the UPS distribution center in Lathrop.

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Called J&G customer support, spoke with Mike, who sounded really upset, because he wanted to ship me replacement ammo but couldn't, because of the new background check rules. I asked him to refund a portion of the purchase price if possible.

- $250 worth of ammo from Brownells was sent by Fedex, in two packages. Both arrived without damage, but one of them was supposed to have 20 boxes of CCI Blazer 9mm, but had only 12.

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Tried to call Brownells, but it was too late, sent them an email and will continue tomorrow.

The bottom line: Prop 63 and the whole California gun control regime sucks, UPS sucks big time, J&G are nice folks but fearful of California DOJ, Brownells (or CCI - I'm not sure whose fault it was, the carton with missing boxes was the original CCI packaging) occasionally sucks.

[Colt]

Have heard multiple stories of ammo orders arriving with missing pieces/boxes. Gotta believe it’s happening during transit.

[SkyHawk]

J&G is mistaken, the exemption to ship to 03 w/COE is alive and well. 03/COE *do not* have to use a licensed ammo vendor - which means we do not have to have a background check. We need to educate them.

https://leginfo.legislature.ca.gov/faces/codes_displaySection.xhtml?lawCode=PEN&sectionNum=30312

30312.
(a) (1) Commencing January 1, 2018, the sale of ammunition by any party shall be conducted by or processed through a licensed ammunition vendor.
(2) When neither party to an ammunition sale is a licensed ammunition vendor, the seller shall deliver the ammunition to a vendor to process the transaction. The ammunition vendor shall promptly and properly deliver the ammunition to the purchaser, if the sale is not prohibited, as if the ammunition were the vendor’s own merchandise. If the ammunition vendor cannot legally deliver the ammunition to the purchaser, the vendor shall forthwith return the ammunition to the seller. The ammunition vendor may charge the purchaser an administrative fee to process the transaction, in an amount to be set by the Department of Justice, in addition to any applicable fees that may be charged pursuant to the provisions of this title.
(b) Commencing January 1, 2018, the sale, delivery, or transfer of ownership of ammunition by any party may only occur in a face-to-face transaction with the seller, deliverer, or transferor, provided, however, that ammunition may be purchased or acquired over the Internet or through other means of remote ordering if a licensed ammunition vendor initially receives the ammunition and processes the transaction in compliance with this section and Article 3 (commencing with Section 30342) of Chapter 1 of Division 10 of Title 4 of this part.
(c) Subdivisions (a) and (b) shall not apply to the sale, delivery, or transfer of ammunition to any of the following:

(6) A person who is licensed as a collector of firearms pursuant to Chapter 44 (commencing with Section 921) of Title 18 of the United States Code and the regulations issued pursuant thereto, whose licensed premises are within this state, and who has a current certificate of eligibility issued by the Department of Justice pursuant to Section 26710.

https://leginfo.legislature.ca.gov/faces/codes_displaySection.xhtml?sectionNum=30314.&lawCode=PEN

30314.
(a) Commencing January 1, 2018, a resident of this state shall not bring or transport into this state any ammunition that he or she purchased or otherwise obtained from outside of this state unless he or she first has that ammunition delivered to a licensed ammunition vendor for delivery to that resident pursuant to the procedures set forth in Section 30312.
(b) Subdivision (a) does not apply to any of the following:

(5) A person who is licensed as a collector of firearms pursuant to Chapter 44 (commencing with Section 921) of Title 18 of the United States Code and the regulations issued pursuant thereto, whose licensed premises are within this state, and who has a current certificate of eligibility issued by the Department of Justice pursuant to Section 26710.

The only time we would need a background check (or more accurately, a $1 COE verification) - is if we choose to buy from or transfer through a licensed ammo, vendor in CA. But it is not required for us to use a licensed ammo vendor.

Do *not* let people pass that FUD around. It is one thing if they decide it is their policy not to ship to us, but do not put up with them saying it is against the law.

[Milsurp1]

[Scratch705]

your ammo got jacked.

especially the 2nd shipment where the box is completely pristine but has missing boxes inside. that is clearly someone cutting it open, taking some boxes then taping it back up.

[unclejesse]

shipping insurance?

[Powder_Keg]

your ammo got jacked.

especially the 2nd shipment where the box is completely pristine but has missing boxes inside. that is clearly someone cutting it open, taking some boxes then taping it back up.

Very possible ^^^

They weigh the package before shipping. If Brownells accidentally shipped a package with missing boxes of ammo, the shipping label weight should reflect the reduced weight.

If the shipping label was for the full weight, someone opened up your package and helped themselves.

[Mandingo27]

Damn that sucks OP

[fishnbeer]

I had the same thing a while back. The package was damaged and 'had to be destroyed'. It was around 700 rounds of .45

The employees know whats in that box. What else would be that heavy and make that sound?
I made a claim and the entire order got re shipped. This was over a year ago

[still919]

I'm not sure whose fault it was,

/\ ALL /\

Sorry to hear, especially given the 07/01 deadline.

[Usmc0844spare]

I am not saying that UPS definitely did NOT steal the stuff, but just wanted to observe that actually stealing stuff at UPS might not be as easy as you think.

For a bit I worked in a UPS sort facility and there is literally almost NO time to worry about what is in a package much less find time to surreptitiously open it up and steal from it. The pace of packages coming off the belt is super fast.

Of course there is possibility of theft either at the drop off point or from the truck driver, but my [limited] experience inside a big UPS building is that few people would have the time or ability to crack open a box and steal junk. Most likely the rounds from the damaged shipment are still rolling between a couple belt rollers to this day.

[Jeepergeo]

So I placed a couple of ammo orders online last week (as a C&R+CoE holder, to get in before the July 1st deadline). All the packages arrived today:

- $400 worth of ammo from J&G Sales was sent by UPS. Picked up a severely damaged package at UPS in Sunnyvale - hesitated whether to refuse the shipment or not, decided not to. Out of 20 boxes ordered, I received 9 and a half. The rest disappeared without trace at the UPS distribution center in Lathrop.

[ATTACH]816704[/ATTACH]

[ATTACH]816705[/ATTACH]

Called J&G customer support, spoke with Mike, who sounded really upset, because he wanted to ship me replacement ammo but couldn't, because of the new background check rules. I asked him to refund a portion of the purchase price if possible.

- $250 worth of ammo from Brownells was sent by Fedex, in two packages. Both arrived without damage, but one of them was supposed to have 20 boxes of CCI Blazer 9mm, but had only 12.

[ATTACH]816706[/ATTACH]

Tried to call Brownells, but it was too late, sent them an email and will continue tomorrow.

The bottom line: Prop 63 and the whole California gun control regime sucks, UPS sucks big time, J&G are nice folks but fearful of California DOJ, Brownells (or CCI - I'm not sure whose fault it was, the carton with missing boxes was the original CCI packaging) occasionally sucks.

And how is it that you know the ammo went missing at Lathrop as opposed to somewhere along the way or even at the shippers dock? You don't. Boxes that beat up should have been refused...it's not like you can't still buy ammo in CA.

[Steves32]

The one thing I liked about TargetsportUSA is they packed in double HD corrugated boxes.

[vino68]

Call USP and let them know you will be filing a police report about your stolen ammo. Mine went missing, I called UPS and a manager said that the driver said my property had a gate which requires a code and no one picked up the intercom. Not true and I was home the whole week. They escalated the issue to some department which investigates, I informed them of my pending actions, all ammo was delivered the next day.

[trivee]

Thanks to everybody for moral support

An update: Brownells offered to ship the missing ammo, no concerns about the 7/1 deadline. I'm definitely becoming a more loyal customer of theirs.

Also, got a call back from J&G, but they still only offer a refund. Had a nice chat with Mike, and an invitation to visit them in person in Prescott AZ and stock up. I'm thinking...

J&G is mistaken, the exemption to ship to 03 w/COE is alive and well. 03/COE *do not* have to use a licensed ammo vendor - which means we do not have to have a background check. We need to educate them.

Yes, absolutely. I did mention this on the phone, but the policy is really set by the owner and the lawyers, not by the employee handling customer issues. I will likely send a followup email, quoting PC 30312 and 30314.

shipping insurance?

I don't think insurance was available, but going forward, I will likely check the insurance box if offered. Once bitten, twice shy...

And how is it that you know the ammo went missing at Lathrop as opposed to somewhere along the way or even at the shippers dock? You don't.

Of course I don't, this is just a guess I looked up detailed tracking information for the package, it left Prescott, AZ on 6/24 - reached Phoenix, AZ on 6/25 - Sylmar, CA on 6/26 - Lathrop, CA same day - spent two days in Lathrop following an exception of "we've incorrectly sorted this package which may cause a delay" - left Lathrop on 6/28 - Oakland on 6/29 - Sunnyvale on 6/29, where I picked it up on 7/1 (I requested pickup at UPS facility, so a delivery truck was not involved). So a physical accident at Lathrop just seems more likely.

Boxes that beat up should have been refused...it's not like you can't still buy ammo in CA.

Well, yeah, but on the other hand, 7.62x25 and .25 ACP are not the most popular calibers. I'm not even sure who stocks them in the Bay Area.