Can I Dros without the owner present?

[BigPimping]

I have been doing a lot of work lately and helping an elderly neighbor get ready to sell the home. They don't have a whole lot of cash and have offered it to give me a nice older shotgun in lieu of payment for helping them.

It would be very difficult for the lady to get to the FFL. Is it possible for me to take the firearm to the FFL and register it to myself? I can guarantee you it's not stolen.

Before I say anything to her is this legal?

[SkyHawk]

If you have a good relationship with a FFL it should be doable and legal. It would be handled as a dealer transfer from a non-licensee. The FFL will probably want a picture of her state ID.

The gray area is when she gives you the gun to take there. You'd need FSC etc but also the 'loan' of a long gun is usually only valid for hunting unless she is direct family, and that means you'd also need a hunting license. So if you were really trying to be mindful of that legal technicality, the FFL could go get it from her.

Alternately, she could ship it there, if she could get a UPS/Fedex driver to come pick it up (like if the FFL put out a pickup request for it). Obviously this all adds to the cost, including a dealer transfer fee, DROS fee etc - you could easily be up over $100 to get it done even before shipping.

There may be some exemption for a firearm 'loan' if it is for transport to a FFL, but I don't know.

In a free state it would be a done deal for ZERO extra dollars, all handled in her home. In this state it is meant to be arduous and expensive.

[FalconLair]

I have been doing a lot of work lately and helping an elderly neighbor get ready to sell the home. They don't have a whole lot of cash and have offered it to give me a nice older shotgun in lieu of payment for helping them.

It would be very difficult for the lady to get to the FFL. Is it possible for me to take the firearm to the FFL and register it to myself? I can guarantee you it's not stolen.

Before I say anything to her is this legal?

i know what i would do

[pacrat]

Can't answer your question BP. But can add possible legal alternative questions.

[1].....If the nice old lady signed a Power of Attorney over to you for the firearm.

https://oag.ca.gov/sites/all/files/agweb/pdfs/firearms/forms/poafirearmsdecl.pdf

Could you then PPT the firearm to yourself at a FFL? I could find nothing saying this is not doable.

[Bill Carson]

i know what i would do

This exactly.

[phonso302]

Can I have the shotgun I lent you years ago back please... you know the shotgun i bought years ago before ppt's and dros... yes that one I'll take it back home now. Thank you for taking such good care of it all these years...

[SkyHawk]

Can't answer your question BP. But can add possible legal alternative questions.

[1].....If the nice old lady signed a Power of Attorney over to you for the firearm.

https://oag.ca.gov/sites/all/files/agweb/pdfs/firearms/forms/poafirearmsdecl.pdf

Could you then PPT the firearm to yourself at a FFL? I could find nothing saying this is not doable.

Good call, the POA should work, probably not for a PPT but for a dealer transfer (unless the POA was signed over to someone other than BP). The POA apparently says the person receiving it can transport to a FFL, so that should alleviate any concerns that it is seen as a loan (which requires hunting) etc.

[WOODY2]

Load her in the pimpmobile and haul her down there. Nobody in the hood will dis you as they'll think you're doing a delivery. Safest way to get it done legally.

[edgerly779]

Ask in ffl forum not here. Why ask some gibroni instead of a professional

[vino68]

Load her in the pimpmobile and haul her down there. Nobody in the hood will dis you as they'll think you're doing a delivery. Safest way to get it done legally.

[pacrat]

Good call, the POA should work, probably not for a PPT but for a dealer transfer (unless the POA was signed over to someone other than BP).
The POA apparently says the person receiving it can transport to a FFL, so that should alleviate any concerns that it is seen as a loan (which requires hunting) etc.

Please share your reasoning as to the underlined.

Example for mine is analogous to auctions of storage containers. When firearms are found after auction. New owner [auction winner] and auctioneer who has POA for all contents as part of his contract with Storage owner. Go to FFL and do PPT. There is no requirement that the gun ever become part of FFL inventory, which would trigger "dealer transfer".

Note page (2) of the POA form. Center of page. Bolded sentence. Has no disqualifying language to keep the POA holder from being both transferor and transferee, or the "NEW OWNER OF RECORD". As long as the transfer is done through an FFL.

https://oag.ca.gov/sites/all/files/agweb/pdfs/firearms/forms/poafirearmsdecl.pdf

[caarcher]

You said "older shotgun". Is it a C&R, older than 50 years? If you get a C&R FFL 03 license that's a face to face transfer, record in your log book and send the $19 to the DOJ. Done.

Then apply for a COE and enjoy mail order ammo.

[The Gleam]

I recall someone here a few years ago was buying a gun from someone coherent but invalid in a nursing-home. FFL allowed use of a notary to visit, verify, and stamp signed documents from the seller for the PPT.

[SkyHawk]

Please share your reasoning as to the underlined.

Example for mine is analogous to auctions of storage containers. When firearms are found after auction. New owner [auction winner] and auctioneer who has POA for all contents as part of his contract with Storage owner. Go to FFL and do PPT. There is no requirement that the gun ever become part of FFL inventory, which would trigger "dealer transfer".

Note page (2) of the POA form. Center of page. Bolded sentence. Has no disqualifying language to keep the POA holder from being both transferor and transferee, or the "NEW OWNER OF RECORD". As long as the transfer is done through an FFL.

https://oag.ca.gov/sites/all/files/a...rearmsdecl.pdf

I agree that the POA person can be both transferor and transferee. But that does not mean it can be done via the PPT process though.

You ever heard of someone PPTing to themselves? I haven’t, that doesn’t mean much though. Sometimes what should be perfectly legal is never the less prohibited by the DES. Call it lawmaking by web programming.

Just because there is no disqualifying language, doesn’t mean you’re in the clear. For instance, there is no law (or “disqualifying language” in the penal code if that works better for you) that says a PPT cannot be from a person who appears in the store with out of state ID, but the DES never the less will not allow it.

Now maybe the DES will allow both parties of a PPT to be the same person, but I’m skeptical. A FFL may be able to shed some light.

What I do know for sure, is that if someone else gets the POA (like BPs wife), then the PPT can be done to BP.

The other option as I noted is a dealer transfer. Because then BP can transfer to himself, because there is no PPT and no 2-parties, just the dealer to BP.

If it were possible for both parties of a PPT to be the same person, that would mean people could ‘clean’ their single shot pistols to semi auto easier than the pawn/redeem process they have been using. Again, it seems like we would have known and done this were it actually possible.

[Dan_Eastvale]

Load her in the pimpmobile and haul her down there. Nobody in the hood will dis you as they'll think you're doing a delivery. Safest way to get it done legally.

Driving Miss Daisy