Need a coach

[diver160651]

nightforce is pretty good at zoom consistency. 22x ranging power takes almost no brain power to ratio down to 11x. ranging through the whole zoom range is above my brain power so i just do easy fractions.

nothing falls away. you just have to think more with a sfp scope.

still no turret spinning needed if the reticle is designed to drop and wind hold. i only touch my turrets when im well past 1200 yards. hold over gets sloppy away from the crosshairs since i dont have a bubble level.

I am very familiar with the reticles.. spin the dial on an SPF and digitally capture the image on a random zoom and do the math.. You're going to be good generally at max power and nobody cares at min.. but the parts in the middle are not perfect. You can do the same with ranging exorcize as long as you don't have mirage - mirage is another issue in ranging all together and spits back ranges that are artificial short.

SFP when at random zoom, is not nearly as consistent as FFP even with the math, because you can't be certain you are on 16.5 or 17.1 zoom.. Many amazing shooters have tried in disciplines where you zoom back and forth dynamically and still need your wind and drop holds, they all end up with FFP. Sitting down shooting alone prone, no pressure and all the time ok..but why start crooked? When playing with others, there ends up often being a communication gap when a SPF is zoomed to a random power..

Lets take a typical 5-25 SPF calibrated at 25x. Be honest, in your head, assuming your somewhere closer to the 20x marking that the 25x marking, so lets just guess because that as accurate as you can get. Maybe we at 21.5x? Solver calls for U11.3 L.6 you have .2 subtensions. What is the correct hold?

Now your spotters is also on a similar FFP around 9x for a large FOV.. What is his correction to you need to be at a corrected value of 11.6 and L1.2 // He's is guessing and your guessing and the time it is taking, the wind just clocked, so it's all for not anyway...

Opps but what if your really on 22.3x and he is at 8x?

Seems to me a no brainer to have the reticle 100% calibrated all the time..

[NorCalFocus]

Need a coach

How does the wind thing work? You have to guesstimate and enter it or there actually a gadget you can plug into your phone?

Both. I just estimate wind and use it as a guide.

But you can pair a weather meter via Bluetooth.

[audiophil2]

I am very familiar with the reticles.. spin the dial on an SPF and digitally capture the image on a random zoom and do the math.. You're going to be good generally at max power and nobody cares at min.. but the parts in the middle are not perfect. You can do the same with ranging exorcize as long as you don't have mirage - mirage is another issue in ranging all together and spits back ranges that are artificial short.

SFP when at random zoom, is not nearly as consistent as FFP even with the math, because you can't be certain you are on 16.5 or 17.1 zoom.. Many amazing shooters have tried in disciplines where you zoom back and forth dynamically and still need your wind and drop holds, they all end up with FFP. Sitting down shooting alone prone, no pressure and all the time ok..but why start crooked? When playing with others, there ends up often being a communication gap when a SPF is zoomed to a random power..

Lets take a typical 5-25 SPF calibrated at 25x. Be honest, in your head, assuming your somewhere closer to the 20x marking that the 25x marking, so lets just guess because that as accurate as you can get. Maybe we at 21.5x? Solver calls for U11.3 L.6 you have .2 subtensions. What is the correct hold?

Now your spotters is also on a similar FFP around 9x for a large FOV.. What is his correction to you need to be at a corrected value of 11.6 and L1.2 // He's is guessing and your guessing and the time it is taking, the wind just clocked, so it's all for not anyway...

Opps but what if your really on 22.3x and he is at 8x?

Seems to me a no brainer to have the reticle 100% calibrated all the time..

You are making an argument for something that does not seem to apply to the OP. From what I understand he wants to pest control at 300-400 yards. You are trying to sell the merits of a FFP high power scope with a guy spotting and a computer to kill pests/predators.

At those distances all the factors you mention are so miniscule they hardly matter. What will matter is gun weight, ammo weight (a bunch of 300wm pills get heavy toting over hills) and a good shooting stick. That is if he is actually walking around to find his targets. SFP vs ffp won't be a huge difference. I've had good success out to 500 yards with a cheap primary arms drop reticle red dot.

Now I prefer to shoot long range from a bench so I have ffp scopes. I don't care if the reticle looks busy at low power because I am usually at half power or more and my targets are no closer than 900 yards and go out to 1 mile.

[diver160651]

You are making an argument for something that does not seem to apply to the OP.

I am sorry if it appeared that I was replying in anyway to the OP in regards to the scopes. I was only replying to your statement below

nightforce is pretty good at zoom consistency. 22x ranging power takes almost no brain power to ratio down to 11x. ranging through the whole zoom range is above my brain power so i just do easy fractions.

nothing falls away. you just have to think more with a sfp scope.

Again, trying to put the 400 yard "chip shot" (humor) into perspective:

pest control at 300-400 yards. You are trying to sell the merits of a FFP high power scope with a guy spotting and a computer to kill pests/predators.

At those distances all the factors you mention are so miniscule they hardly matter.

In the last 3 months I shot 9 PRS/NRL and Field style matches. Other than East Coast were wind seems missing for months, in every match, at least from the plains of Wyoming to our Coast, I have seen wind make lots of us miss 400 yard targets. I've shown what happens to his loads in a 300wm even under a relatively light 10mph wind @ 400. I find it very strange things keep coming back to other than bullet drop, nothing maters =<400.

Remember that most of us go to the range maybe walk our way out or even miss, then correct and "think we are dialed".. It's just not the same as one shot.

Other than my reply to you, my statements to the OP, has been centered around understanding the angular and ballistic information and not discounting it. Again, something super simple he could indeed find a mentor for in his home town, maybe spread over several nights sharing a beer.

I've seen several new shooters embrace learning to think in angular units and work to understand field ballistics with the current tools we have. These guys can practice at 100y and with a tiny bit of help "reading" the wind shoot amazingly at long range. But I have also seen guys with the OPs thought on learning, take years or just give up..

He already said he is to busy to worry much about learning the wind and seems resistant to doing the non-shooting work that is needed to understand the angular effects. Sad though, and sad so many people are resistant to doing a bit on non-range work. LPR classes are taught with a formula and the better ones make sure the class work is completed and understood.

I've said what I can -

[sigstroker]

For some indoor prep before driving to AZ, OP can find wind youtubes by Frank Galli of snipers hide, and there are lots of others too.

[BC9696]

Diver...after extensive classroom training I simply realized the disciplines and amount of practice needed to become proficient to 1000 yards, learning to read the wind, allow for elevation, humidity, etc simply do not apply to my needs. I won't be dedicating the time to shoot that far...because i will never need to. I work 75-90 hrs a week so when I get free time I shoot this.



I'll be hunting bull elk in the Kaibab this year with a stickbow.

i can call critters in to within 400 yards (on the outside) and often to within under 100 but for those wary targets that hang up at 300-400 yards I now have glass that will enable me and my old eyes to put em in the crosshairs. Whether it's a lion, coyote, hog or ??? I just need to learn how to adapt to the new technology on my rifles. In a perfect world i would be able to zero em at 200 yards and just learn which line on the ret to use for 300 and 400 yards shots...basically using the rifle scope like a BDC scope and never touch the turret. I am not trying to become a LR shooter. The courses I took convinced me of that.

[ilawson]

[BC9696]

That’s a really attainable goal. For hunting with a center fire rifle a 100yd zero is not the most practical. 200 is much better. With the .308 you can find loads that keep you holding on elk fur to almost 400 in light wind. Just practice with 9x12 steel plates or thereabouts. Have a spotter. With a little practice you can keep the first round on the plate to 500 in 0-10mph wind...

That's what I thought (although now I prefer arrows for big game). Switched to a recurve for this season just to increase the challenge.

[ar15barrels]

there is no difference in sfp vs ffp for a reticle as far as I know. reticles are etched glass so they are a constant. turrets just move a reticle which defeats the purpose of a speedy drop reticle like the moar. .

Oh this is going to be good...

[ar15barrels]

Diver...after extensive classroom training I simply realized the disciplines and amount of practice needed to become proficient to 1000 yards, learning to read the wind, allow for elevation, humidity, etc simply do not apply to my needs.

Those same things ALL apply at 400yds as well.
Just to a lesser factor because the distance is shorter.
If you don't want to master the basics, you should probably stay with a point blank zero and limit yourself to whatever distance your point blank zero allows you in the weather conditions you happen to be in.

[BC9696]

TURRET IS UNFAMILIAR

Those same things ALL apply at 400yds as well.
Just to a lesser factor because the distance is shorter.
If you don't want to master the basics, you should probably stay with a point blank zero and limit yourself to whatever distance your point blank zero allows you in the weather conditions you happen to be in.

This has nothing to do with "mastering the basics"...at least, the basics within the distance referenced. proper body positioning, stable platform, breathing, steady gentle squeezing, etc are things I have down. Nobody on the planet has ever switched from BDC to tactical scopes without a brief period of trial & tribulation. Well...except maybe you. It's like going from an automatic transmission to a stick...those first hilly miles can be rough. Same thing.

On a personal note I would like to thank those sincerely offering their time and help instead of smartazz remarks. I appreciate it.

[ar15barrels]

TURRET IS UNFAMILIAR
Nobody on the planet has ever switched from BDC to tactical scopes without a brief period of trial & tribulation.

Once you can completely forget about inches and yards and only worry about angle, the turret will be easy.
The markings on the turret are angular markings.
We have to point the bore up to get the bullet to land in a specific spot at a specific distance.
We call this angle of departure.
This angle of departure is based on our 100yd zero.
Beyond that, there is nothing else to worry about on the elevation turret.
There are ballistic calculators that will give you the necessary departure angle required for a specific distance when you feed them the weather info and your bullet's info.

[BC9696]

I was approached by a competition shooter on snipershide willing to tutor me this Friday so I'm all good. Thanks guys.

[BC9696]

C5 from snipershide showed me the practical application side of the LR shooting equation this morning. I had a basic understanding of the task from classroom training at Front Sight but having someone actually show me how to use the parallax, determine my ammo's actual fps and use the ballistics app it all came together. I thought you could rely on the markings on the parallax knob and the fps on the ammo box. Doh!

Within 90 minutes I ringing steel at 600 yards and before we finished up put 3 of 6 rounds on steel at 1000 yards (first 3 shots just missed...wind drift I wasn't offsetting). Best of all I was able to do most of this just using the reticle. So happy!! A BIG THANK YOU TO C5 at snipershide for the assist. Never believed I could hit a target at 1000 yards. The app sure makes it easy.

[NorCalFocus]

Glad to hear you got it figured out.