when does a ppt count considering the 5 in 1 year rule

[Librarian]

I would if I had that many. Moving is a pain in the ***, less stuff is better.

If I legally own 10, 50, 200, or 500 guns and decide to sell them all individually, what law would I be breaking?

"Infrequently" is a law meant to enforce FFL licensing and selling as a business.

True.

The Legislature, with it's 'fewer than 6 transactions' has set the bar for DOJ to investigate for 'in the business', and with a level of transactions as you suggest, might inspire DOJ to expend resources, to see if you might be violating PC 26500,

26500.

(a) No person shall sell, lease, or transfer firearms unless the person has been issued a license pursuant to Article 1 (commencing with Section 26700) and Article 2 (commencing with Section 26800) of Chapter 2.

(b) Any person violating this article is guilty of a misdemeanor.

[Duck Killer]

I would if I had that many. Moving is a pain in the ***, less stuff is better.

If I legally own 10, 50, 200, or 500 guns and decide to sell them all individually, what law would I be breaking?

"Infrequently" is a law meant to enforce FFL licensing and selling as a business.

I had a conversation with my FFL about it and it is the investigation threshold. Basically you pop up on a screen. If you do it more than once or consistently for multiple years then you are going to have problems. Many times DOJ will call the FFL and ask them what the situation is or request a number to call the person. DOJ just wants to make sure you are not running a business for profit. Aka buying off roster pistols as a police officer and selling them immediately for a profit. Over and over again.

[AreWeFree]

True.

The Legislature, with it's 'fewer than 6 transactions' has set the bar for DOJ to investigate for 'in the business', and with a level of transactions as you suggest, might inspire DOJ to expend resources, to see if you might be violating PC 26500,

Absolutely, I completely understand and realized the "investigation" part.

Is it a crime to sell your personal firearms, infrequently, no matter the quantity?

Let's be pragmatic here, as screwed us as california is, has there ever been a legitimate case against a law abiding person for this?

I've seen this question come up for years and everyone is in fear, like 922r compliance, but I don't think it's real.

CA has the same law against flipping cars.
If you're a legitimate individual selling personal property, I don't see a reason to worry.

26500.
(a) No person shall sell, lease, or transfer firearms unless the person has been issued a license pursuant to Article 1 (commencing with Section 26700) and Article 2 (commencing with Section 26800) of Chapter 2.

(b) Any person violating this article is guilty of a misdemeanor.

(Added by Stats. 2010, Ch. 711, Sec. 6. (SB 1080) Effective January 1, 2011. Operative January 1, 2012, by Sec. 10 of Ch. 711.)

[AreWeFree]

I had a conversation with my FFL about it and it is the investigation threshold. Basically you pop up on a screen. If you do it more than once or consistently for multiple years then you are going to have problems. Many times DOJ will call the FFL and ask them what the situation is or request a number to call the person. DOJ just wants to make sure you are not running a business for profit. Aka buying off roster pistols as a police officer and selling them immediately for a profit. Over and over again.

That makes sense and is what I was thinking.

I don't think it's a thing us normal honest people need to be concerned about.

[Duck Killer]

That makes sense and is what I was thinking.

I don't think it's a thing us normal honest people need to be concerned about.

It is almost impossible for a normal person (non Leo) to become a dealer. Where do you get your inventory to make a profit? We can only buy 12 new pistols a year. Good luck making a profit on those


As ppt. We can buy and sell pistols freely. No real ability to make a business out of that.

[Rorge Retson]

Only reason I don't have 100+ guns is because of California law.

Might want to reconsider this post because it sounds like a real good sound bite - the wrong kind.

[r1ghtw1ng]

I read in court transcripts, that DOJ sometimes cannot distinguish between a sale and a trade. In this instance, the trade would not count against the 5-in-1-year rule.

I believe the transcript I was reading was when the Sac (or LA) cop was busted for flipping a large number of off-roster handguns on CGN.

[smak28]

I read in court transcripts, that DOJ sometimes cannot distinguish between a sale and a trade. In this instance, the trade would not count against the 5-in-1-year rule.

I believe the transcript I was reading was when the Sac (or LA) cop was busted for flipping a large number of off-roster handguns on CGN.

How can anyone distinguish a sale vs. a trade, because isn't the paperwork for getting rid of a firearm the same (aside from addt'l paperwork of a buy transaction)? I don't see how a trade would NOT be counted as sell in the 5-in-1 year rule. I must be missing something here, but is there something that separates a sale & a trade?

[mr goodguy]

Waiting for answer lol.does a trade consider a sale? Does it count as one transaction?

[tonyxcom]

A trade appears the same way as a sale. End of story.

[r1ghtw1ng]

I'll do some digging later. I read it in passing and thought, well that's interesting, and should have bookmarked it.

[tonyxcom]

I'll do some digging later. I read it in passing and thought, well that's interesting, and should have bookmarked it.

I think this opportunity is presented once you are contacted or charged by the DOJ where you can provide supporting documentation or you traded gun for gun and did both PPT's at the same dealer at the same time. But what if you trade a non firearm?

So I highly doubt there is some analyst somewhere that sees a pair of PPT's in both directions between the same 2 people and says "oh look they traded" and un-checks these transactions from your 5.