ATF agents and eBay purchase

[HooYah]

NCIS/CID have been known to watch eBay listings as well.

[pagedeveloper]

WHY??

So they leave you to get it alone, and you go get a firearm, and start shooting at them. So they want to do so for officer safety.

[Bullets&Whitewalls]

Not my problem. That's the job THEY signed up for.

I don't care if they are slightly uncomfortable or inconvenienced having to wait outside for the gun parts they came for. There is NO reason and NO benefit to ME to having them come in MY house while checking everything out on the way to my safe and then watching and looking over my shoulder. Nope, not gonna happen.

They're cops and they're evidence gathering. Only a fool would invite them in to see their gun safe/gun room etc. Have you really never seen the "don't talk to the police" video?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d-7o9xYp7eE

It's the exact same principals and issues at play here.



This.

Hey, my Cohaire MP5 has a fake can on it. What?? Did we just see a suppressed MP5? A quick check of the data base to see that you don't have a suppressor registered to you and next thing you know they're stacked up out side your door ready to breach it.

It's not out side the realm of possibilities so why would you allow even a .0001% chance of it happening.

[boopiejones]

If someone was planning on shooting the ATF officers, wouldn’t they do that when they first answer the door? Or shoot right through the door? Why would a bad guy open the door unarmed when he sees officers on the other side?

I am all for cooperating and giving them the stolen property without having them go through the hassle of obtaining a warrant. But I really don’t see how they are suddenly at a higher risk of getting shot if they let me go retrieve the slide on my own.

That being said, I’d probably just say “come with me” and they can follow me all the way through the house to retrieve the stolen goods. I don’t care how closely they scan things as they walk through my house, they aren’t going to find anything even remotely incriminating. They can run every serial number of every gun, bike and tv I own. It’s all on the up and up. The worst thing they might find is some expired cheese in the fridge.

[Dago Red]

Does anyone know for a fact legally what can be done here? I’m all for cooperating but I know they’re are ones out there that don’t care if they ruin your lives or not.

If you say you will bring to them but they can’t come in are they supposed to respect that and wait outside? Also, when served a search warrant do you have the right to have them wait till your attorney gets there?

Also, if the person who they’re looking for isn’t there and spouse doesn’t allow in do they wait or come back? My wife is shady but she always warns me not to let any LEOs that stop by in

And yes, LE is known for heavy handed tactics to get what they want and are allowed to lie to you as well. Ideally it would be great if we could automatically trust anyone with a badge, sadly it only takes a few bad apples.

Red

[audiophil2]

I would not open the door. I would tell the two guys alleging to be atf to come back with local police or meet me at the police station. at the most i would tell them i was calling the non emergency police line and requesting a leo at the house to check their credentials if they gave pushback on that.

seems guys are going from alleged atf asking to enter a home to a swat team with warrants busting down the door with a ram. there is an in between. its just alleged stolen property that may or may not be there.

[mooner760HD]

LOL at anyone advocating cooperation with the ATF in this situation. Waco and Ruby Ridge weren't that long ago.

[phonso302]

Because possession of stolen property is a felony and they have evidence it was in the OP's possession.

If you don't know it was stolen, there is no issue. As was the case here. However once you know that the item you purchased was stolen (when the Agents tell you), then you are knowingly in possession of stolen property, and could be prosecuted if you were to try and hide or keep the item.

The Agents have the paper trail of the purchase. If you decided not to hand over the stolen item, they could easily get a search warrant and search your home for the stolen item.

Which would you rather have happen? Hand over the stolen item, or get detained while the Agents get a search warrant and have your house searched? Both would result in the stolen item being recovered, however during the service of the search warrant any and all illegal items could be found, and result in actual criminal charges.

The OP did the exact right thing during his encounter with the Agents.

I never said I wouldn't return said property. I just see 0 reason to let them in my home. There is no law that says I have to have them escort me to MY safe in MY HOME.You want it? sure I'll go get it wait here. Your b.s way of thinking is what has gotten us here. "Oh you didnt let me inside your house now I'm going to think of something to charge you with"
It's the same way of thinking that has cops now demanding you to roll down all your windows so they can feel "safe"

I'm not anti police or anarchist as you mentioned, I just feel every day we have our rights slowly taken away because someone gets their feelings hurt.

[MJ50]

at first, i thought the ebay seller was selling stolen parts...
at least the seller issued refund...

[sfe187]

1. Don't open your front door. Open your peep hole if you have one or speak over the door ask what its all about.
2. If they have a warrant, open the door and comply.
2a. If they don't have a warrant, get the stolen item they claim and meet them outside your front door (I'll be right out officers).
3. If they insist coming in and get the item "together", respectfully reply a warrant is need for entry to my home.

*Never open your front door to talk to anyone let alone if you know its ATF.

*If you are not home, instruct your wife and/or other family member to do the same and WAIT till you come home since they are looking for you and not others. Never open door at all times.

Its just business and respecting each other's RIGHTS (yours and LEOs). Nothing more nothing less.

[TORRGAR9]

Yup, had the same visit from the ATF at my office on Friday. Two agents in full tac gear, ready for war. Shocked my staff and clients. First agent claimed I bought a Glock slide on E-bay, claimed they traced it by it's serial number on the slide. Ask if I had it here. Told them no and are they sure about the purchase. They said, yes and traced from a e-bay purchase. Told them OK, can I get it to them on Monday. Male agent said OK. Asked for my business card and cell number, which I gave him. Female agent asked if they scared me? Told her hell yes, I know I don't do any thing wrong. Couple of hours later male agent calls and states they asked for the wrong part #, this one I had bought. Came by on Saturday and pick it up. Gave me a receipt.
All said and done, glad to cooperate with the Feds. Out a few bucks. No more parts purchases on E-bay. Wish they had just called first, now my whole staff knows my hobby.

[sigstroker]

I would not open the door. I would tell the two guys alleging to be atf to come back with local police or meet me at the police station. at the most i would tell them i was calling the non emergency police line and requesting a leo at the house to check their credentials if they gave pushback on that.

seems guys are going from alleged atf asking to enter a home to a swat team with warrants busting down the door with a ram. there is an in between. its just alleged stolen property that may or may not be there.

Would your local cops actually show up? I know when I lived in the Big City, the cops would have a good chuckle at such a request and then hang up. They usually wouldn't come out when I reported actual property crimes, just directed me to a website to fill out a form.

[audiophil2]

Would your local cops actually show up? I know when I lived in the Big City, the cops would have a good chuckle at such a request and then hang up. They usually wouldn't come out when I reported actual property crimes, just directed me to a website to fill out a form.

most definitely. I've had cops come out when someone wanted to enter my house to test my water at 9pm.

atf would have all sorts of flags. if they showed up outside my business hours they are either already with the sheriff or scammers. within my business hours i always verify credentials but ive been trained how to check all the security features. a badge is not a credential so they mean zero to me.

[SkyHawk]

[emtmark]