A friend going through divorce

[DolphinFan]

Wife's friend is getting a divorce. Husband not being cooperative. Husband was physically violent and abusive and was issued a DVRO.
Husband handed firearms collection to brother who may or may not have a HSC and NO FFL was used in the transfer. Collection included long guns, handguns and possibly one or more unregistered Assault Rifles.
She has another hearing coming up for a permanent Restraining Order.

How many codes, laws or regulations were violated and what are their numbers.

Husband likely still has access to firearms in form of keys to brothers house and keys or combination to safe, IF in a safe at all.

Some firearms were originally transferred in 1981 after the father died to sons without proper Inter-family transfer. Just handed to them, so not registered to either.

Transfer between brothers was in October 2017 After DVRO.

Thank you for your help.

[SarcoBlaster]

Why is her friend not talking to her attorney about this?

[Franklincollector]

No kidding. Common sense doesn’t tell you what to do?

[DolphinFan]

Why is her friend not talking to her attorney about this?

Didn't say she wasn't. Just wanted to help put together a list so her attorney doesn't overlook anything.

[ChuckDizzle]

Didn't say she wasn't. Just wanted to help put together a list so her attorney doesn't overlook anything.

Ohh cool, I also charge $225 an hour for legal research...

[DolphinFan]

[nick]

There was no requirement for papered transfers in 1981.

[IVC]

The potential criminal case against husband is completely different from the civil procedure of the divorce.

In a divorce, the court cares about splitting assets and the wife will have to hire a forensic investigator if she believes the husband is hiding assets. If she indeed finds out that he does, she will likely get the full value of the assets if the husband tried to conceal it intentionally or if he lied when reporting the value. However, if there is no record of transfer or ownership, it would be very difficult to prove anything.

A criminal case against husband due to TRO is not something that she brings up in the divorce court. That's for the DA and criminal prosecution. If the whole case is based on "has the keys, knows the combination" it's an extremely weak case because the DA would have to prove the knowledge. If there are no records, he can't just say "he likely knows the combination." Transfer itself might be a decent case, but it's for a DA to decide whether it makes sense.

I'm going through a divorce myself and have a choice of leaving half the guns to the wife, or taking them all as part of my half of the assets. It's frustrating because my guns were against her horse spending, yet when it comes to divorce it's assets vs. expenses. Assets are split, expenses are water under the bridge.

So, I provided my wife a list with new prices, then added depreciation to come up with a figure. She can propose something else, but that risks her ending up with a bunch of guns she doesn't want.

[DolphinFan]

The potential criminal case against husband is completely different from the civil procedure of the divorce.

In a divorce, the court cares about splitting assets and the wife will have to hire a forensic investigator if she believes the husband is hiding assets. If she indeed finds out that he does, she will likely get the full value of the assets if the husband tried to conceal it intentionally or if he lied when reporting the value. However, if there is no record of transfer or ownership, it would be very difficult to prove anything.

A criminal case against husband due to TRO is not something that she brings up in the divorce court. That's for the DA and criminal prosecution. If the whole case is based on "has the keys, knows the combination" it's an extremely weak case because the DA would have to prove the knowledge. If there are no records, he can't just say "he likely knows the combination." Transfer itself might be a decent case, but it's for a DA to decide whether it makes sense.

I'm going through a divorce myself and have a choice of leaving half the guns to the wife, or taking them all as part of my half of the assets. It's frustrating because my guns were against her horse spending, yet when it comes to divorce it's assets vs. expenses. Assets are split, expenses are water under the bridge.

So, I provided my wife a list with new prices, then added depreciation to come up with a figure. She can propose something else, but that risks her ending up with a bunch of guns she doesn't want.

Yes. This NOT for the divorce it is for the Permanent Restraining Order.

[Cokebottle]

The 1981 transfer of guns from the father was legal without paperwork.
The transfer to brother without FFL, *MAY* be legal if it does not violate the conditions of the DVRO, it is considered a loan, *AND* if the duration of the loan does not exceed 30 days (see bolded parts of AB1511).
If the "loan" took place after the DVRO was issued, it COULD be a violation of the terms of the RO if the RO stated that the firearms needed to be surrendered to local PD or to an FFL for storage, that will depend on the wording of the RO.

Possession of unregistered assault weapons is a felony, now for both husband and brother, with an added charge of the transfer of the URAW, but be careful, wife could potentially be charged with possession if she had access before moving out.
Most of these are from the DOJ FAQ... PC sections are listed at the bottom of each group of answers, you can pull up the actual text of the laws on the Leginfo site.

https://oag.ca.gov/firearms/pubfaqs

11. Who is prohibited from owning or possessing firearms?
Any person who has a conviction for any misdemeanor listed in Penal Code section 29805 or for any felony, or is addicted to the use of any narcotic drug, or has been held involuntarily as a danger to self or others pursuant to Welfare and Institutions Code section 8103 is prohibited from buying, owning, or possessing firearms or ammunition. There are also prohibitions based on mental conditions, domestic restraining/protective orders, conditions of probation, and specific offenses committed as a juvenile. A list of prohibited categoriesCan I sell a gun directly to another person (i.e. non-dealer)?

And:

https://leginfo.legislature.ca.gov/faces/billTextClient.xhtml?bill_id=201520160AB1511

AB 1511, Santiago. Firearms: lending.
Existing law generally requires the loan of a firearm to be conducted through a licensed firearms dealer. A violation of this provision is a crime. Existing law exempts from this requirement a loan of a firearm between persons who are personally known to each other, if the loan is infrequent and does not exceed 30 days in duration.
This bill would instead limit that exemption to the loan of a firearm to a spouse or registered domestic partner, or to a parent, child, sibling, grandparent, or grandchild, related as specified. The bill would require a handgun loaned pursuant to these provisions to be registered to the person loaning the handgun. By expanding the application of an existing crime, this bill would impose a state-mandated local program.
The California Constitution requires the state to reimburse local agencies and school districts for certain costs mandated by the state. Statutory provisions establish procedures for making that reimbursement.
This bill would provide that no reimbursement is required by this act for a specified reason.

Bill Text
The people of the State of California do enact as follows:

SECTION 1.

Section 27880 of the Penal Code is amended to read:
27880.
Section 27545 does not apply to the loan of a firearm if all of the following requirements are satisfied:
(a) The loan is to a spouse, registered domestic partner, or any of the following relations, whether by consanguinity, adoption, or steprelation:
(1) Parent.
(2) Child.
(3) Sibling.
(4) Grandparent.
(5) Grandchild.
(b) The loan is infrequent, as defined in Section 16730.
(c) The loan is for any lawful purpose.
(d) The loan does not exceed 30 days in duration.
(e) Until January 1, 2015, if the firearm is a handgun, the individual being loaned the firearm shall have a valid handgun safety certificate. Commencing January 1, 2015, for any firearm, the individual being loaned the firearm shall have a valid firearm safety certificate, except that in the case of a handgun, an unexpired handgun safety certificate may be used.
(f) If the firearm being loaned is a handgun, the handgun is registered to the person making the loan pursuant to Section 11106.

SEC. 2.
No reimbursement is required by this act pursuant to Section 6 of Article XIII B of the California Constitution because the only costs that may be incurred by a local agency or school district will be incurred because this act creates a new crime or infraction, eliminates a crime or infraction, or changes the penalty for a crime or infraction, within the meaning of Section 17556 of the Government Code, or changes the definition of a crime within the meaning of Section 6 of Article XIII B of the California Constitution.

And finally, regarding the unregistered assault weapons:

https://oag.ca.gov/firearms/regagunfaqs

Can I sell or transfer my assault weapon or .50 BMG rifle to a family member?

[Jeepergeo]

....and everything your wife and her friend say is true without prejudice.

This is a good time to MYOB. Remember, she elected to marry the guy and the breakup goes to prove she has made poor decisions in the past...

[yoteassasin]

Wife's friend is getting a divorce. Husband not being cooperative. Husband was physically violent and abusive and was issued a DVRO.
Husband handed firearms collection to brother who may or may not have a HSC and NO FFL was used in the transfer. Collection included long guns, handguns and possibly one or more unregistered Assault Rifles.
She has another hearing coming up for a permanent Restraining Order.

How many codes, laws or regulations were violated and what are their numbers.

Husband likely still has access to firearms in form of keys to brothers house and keys or combination to safe, IF in a safe at all.

Some firearms were originally transferred in 1981 after the father died to sons without proper Inter-family transfer. Just handed to them, so not registered to either.

Transfer between brothers was in October 2017 After DVRO.

Thank you for your help.

wtf kind of liberal FUD is oooozing from your brain?

[SarcoBlaster]

....and everything your wife and her friend say is true without prejudice.

This is a good time to MYOB. Remember, she elected to marry the guy and the breakup goes to prove she has made poor decisions in the past...

Yep. Stay in your lane, OP.

[highpower]

Yep, the smartest thing to do is to stay the he** out of other peoples business. Or, are you getting involved because your wife is making you? If that’s the case, man up and tell her to leave you out of it.


Edited to add:

In thinking about it, I don't know who is a bigger idiot, the broad for not trusting her lawyer to deal with the legal aspects of her case (something he/she went to school for and is being paid to do), or the OP for asking for free legal advice on a gun forum.

[wpage]

Stay out of it...