LEO training, he needs help. BIG TIME!

[mif_slim]

Thats very true, but if you can shoot better and be better under stress you will be that much better. I had two SHTF and I think that I've dealt with it good enough to see another day, and, range time and practice with my firearm along with alot of paintball(lol) and SD training helped me. You can never have enough RIGHT training because practice doesnt make perfect but correct practice makes perfect.

Its like that killing spree in India where LEO just watched and hiding behind cover and didnt do anything about it...thats the kind of stuff I wouldnt trust being with a LEO if their doing just that, hiding.

[homerm14]

Thats very true, but if you can shoot better and be better under stress you will be that much better. I had two SHTF and I think that I've dealt with it good enough to see another day, and, range time and practice with my firearm along with alot of paintball(lol) and SD training helped me. You can never have enough RIGHT training because practice doesnt make perfect but correct practice makes perfect.

Its like that killing spree in India where LEO just watched and hiding behind cover and didnt do anything about it...thats the kind of stuff I wouldnt trust being with a LEO if their doing just that, hiding.

Sure practice is not going to hurt and accuracy builds confidence which always helps.

[sgtbuck]

Thats very true, but if you can shoot better and be better under stress you will be that much better. I had two SHTF and I think that I've dealt with it good enough to see another day, and, range time and practice with my firearm along with alot of paintball(lol) and SD training helped me. You can never have enough RIGHT training because practice doesnt make perfect but correct practice makes perfect.

Its like that killing spree in India where LEO just watched and hiding behind cover and didnt do anything about it...thats the kind of stuff I wouldnt trust being with a LEO if their doing just that, hiding.

I could not agree more. I was like you always praticing mainly because I like to shoot. Those paint balls do hurt when they hit LOL. I retired three years ago and continue to shoot at least once a month.

Wow you had two that is very rare. Talk about a high pucker factor. Its not fun thats for sure and the red tape afterwards wow. Its not somthing I would wish on anyone.

[Dr Rockso]

7" at 25 yds is not a bad group; 25 yds is a pretty long handgun shot. I've seen LE who were all over the place at 7 yds, that's who I'd worry about.

[Gnome]

Most of the comments on this thread are correct (with the exception of the OP). LE duties entail a lot more than shooting a gun. Shooting your gun is a small portion of LE is. Though I beleive it is an important aspect for Officer Survival, there are also other pressing issues such as Career Survival that we deal with more often.

As such, many LE dont practice as often as John Q. Citizen with a Mon-Fri, 9-5 job. Our hours are long and varied. And like another poster said, after a 10-12 hour shift, and then standind by four court in the morning, the last thing an LE wants to do is go to the range.

Also, many LEOs are not gun enthusiasts. Its just a tool. Obviously, a gun enthusiasts is going to shoot better than a person who sees the gun as just another tool.

I can tell you that contrary to popular belief, LE Depts dont hand out free ammo. My dept charges for practice and duty ammo, just like any other store would. Yes they do give it to us at a discounted price, but it still adds up. And if I should want to practice, the range is usually being used for the non stop academies that we are running through.

Im a member of LASD, I can tell you that we qualify more than two times a year. We qualify three times a year I agree that it is entirely way too little, but it's not my call.

OP, yeah you may shoot better than your LE buddy when standing in a controled enviornment and shooting at paper targets. Try keeping your 3 MOA grouping while shooting crouched, from behind cover, at night, while the target is shooting back at you. I gurantee the grouping will be non-existent.

As an LE, a shooting involves more than sight allignment, smooth trigger pull, and breathing. It involves all that I mentioned previously, using the radio to call for back up, coordinating resources, and not getting your head blown off.

So Mif Slim, if you think you can do all of that and maintain your MOA, then kudos to you. Please feel free to "neutralize the threat" yourself. That had to be one of the most arrogant posts I've ever read.

[mif_slim]

Look, I said and I will say it again, I respect LEO and their duty. Outside of your duty with no weapon and you get into a SHTF and a officer is there but cant hit worth crap, would you trust your life with him/her? If he/she told you to follow them but didnt know crap would you? Its like if someone jumps off a cliff and tells you to do the same would you?
I know that LE is not just about shooting, but when it comes down to it, a logic talker/nagotiator will not beat a bullet. Of course it wont happen all the time, but when it does happen, it would be great to know that we can trust our LEO 100% of the time. Most of the time I do trust our LEO but with recent events happening, it does make one think.

If a gun is a tool for Police officers, I think they should know how to use the tool. Whats the use of having a engine stand when you dont fix engines right?

OP, yeah you may shoot better than your LE buddy when standing in a controled enviornment and shooting at paper targets. Try keeping your 3 MOA grouping while shooting crouched, from behind cover, at night, while the target is shooting back at you. I gurantee the grouping will be non-existent.

I did, wait, more like forced to. My grouping was in exsistance.

[DRM6000]

7" at 25 yds is acceptable. those would all be hits to the thorasic. but, in a stressful situation, that group could double.

shooting to stop a threat is not the same as bullseye target shooting.

[tyrist]

He still has acceptable combat accuracy...9/10 ring hits are all that matters and groupings are even less important in a gun fight. When the target is moving 25 yards away its going to be much harder to land hits anyway.

[trinydex]

7 moa at 25 yards is 28" right? that's pretty piss poor.

7 moa at 100 yards is 7"

double that for 50 yards and you get 14"

double that again for 25 yards and you get 28"

[lawaia]

7 moa at 25 yards is 28" right? that's pretty piss poor.

7 moa at 100 yards is 7"

double that for 50 yards and you get 14"

double that again for 25 yards and you get 28"

I believe 7 MOA at 25 yards would be 1.75". 7 MOA at 400 yards would be 28". 7 MOA @ 100 yards is 7". Maybe a distance shooter here can chime in on this.

[Bobula]

Where I used to work we qualified 4 times a year. When I go to the range or I am shooting personal guns it's more of a stress relief then proper shooting. You never know till shtf how you'll react, but the few times it has it's all muscle memory. The nasty situation I've been in where at proper responses to training. One time I couldn't remember pulling my gun, it was just magically in my hand, as it should have been.

[trinydex]

I believe 7 MOA at 25 yards would be 1.75". 7 MOA at 400 yards would be 28". 7 MOA @ 100 yards is 7". Maybe a distance shooter here can chime in on this.

uhh... 7 moa is a horrible group at 100 yards... how would it get BETTER as you get closer? it should only get progressively more embarassingly horrible.

[DRM6000]

uhh... 7 moa is a horrible group at 100 yards... how would it get BETTER as you get closer? it should only get progressively more embarassingly horrible.

the grouping would get tighter at closer distances. think of a conical pattern. it widens at longer distances.

[trinydex]

ah you're right i'm thinking backwards

[Natty Bumppo]

A 7 MOA group, fired offhand, at 25 yards is a 1.75" group. I don't believe I've ever shot that well.

A 3 MOA group at the same 25 yards means all rounds impacted within a
0.75" circle. No round was more than 0.375" from the point of aim. I could not even aspire to such accuracy.

Cordially,
Natty