Semi auto in space

[Jpach]

I was thinking the recoil would instead racking the slide, would simply be transfered to the entire gun, and on to the person.. Oh yea, I would guess limp wrist would be really bad. But I didnt think the fast recoil impulse would not make a difference in a zero G environment. Then again, maybe you're right.

With that logic, wouldnt a recoil operated gun not work on earth when falling from the sky or jumping? The shooter is still keeping the frame mostly still. I would imagine it would still work. Things still move in space.

[Decoligny]

I was thinking the recoil would instead racking the slide, would simply be transfered to the entire gun, and on to the person.. Oh yea, I would guess limp wrist would be really bad. But I didnt think the fast recoil impulse would not make a difference in a zero G environment. Then again, maybe you're right.

You have to understand that the lack of gravity and atmosphere does not equal the lack of inertia.

A stationary object will stay stationary until acted upon by an outside force.

The stationary object would be the gun, the hand holding the gun, the body that the hand is connected to. The only thing different that firing a gun on the ground is there is no gravity holding you to the floor, and the presence of atmosphere.

Imagine falling in an elevator. You are falling at a rate that causes you to be weightless. Would you still be able to fire the gun and have it operate as designed? YES. However when you pulled the trigger, the force would push your body slightly away from the direction of the bullets travel. There would still be more than enough resistance for the action to work properly and for the gun to cycle. The absence of air would only allow the bullet to travel for a longer distance without slowing due to air resistance.

[56Chevy]

[ty423]

Also you probably won't hear anything since there is no air for the sound to travel...

[ricknadine1111]

With all you brains out there it's a wonder why the US Government has spent millions on that laser system.

[7x57]

Must...not...show...geek...credentials...

OK, fine. As pointed out, very little changes for a firearm in space. It is possible that some weapons depend on gravity for proper feeding, though I think most don't. Supposedly some push-feed bolt-actions aren't reliable upside down, so maybe they would have an issue in space. The only answer is to have an upside-down range session and find out. I'd say anything that functions upside down and on its side should be more than fine in space.

Depending on what I'm wearing and how much exposed skin I have, I'd sort of not like to be in a small metal-walled chamber when a lot of hot metal cylinders go bouncing around at high velocity in weightlessness. I want all my buddies who might fire near me to carry revolvers. :-)

The point about lubricants and vacuum welding is by far the best insight in the thread. I suppose it wouldn't be limited to the gun either. I wonder what happens when you use some old ammo and the bullet jacket has welded to the case mouth? Maybe not so good if the ammo is loaded hot, at least as bad as having the bullet forced up against the rifling.

I think there is a solution for the lubricant problem at least, besides looking for greases suitable for use in vacuum. Craig Boddington recommends bolt-action rifles for hunting polar bears on the arctic ice because they work well completely dry, which he says is better than any lubricant in extreme cold. That sounds good, except the cleaner the metals the better I imagine they'd vacuum weld. :-( Perhaps better to look into vacuum greases after all.

I also wonder if there would be problems with powder aging due to outgassing in vacuum, but I'm not enough of a chemist to know. Primers should be fine. Though it's not an aging test, I believe my wife has actually fired primers in vacuum in her lab.

7x57

[trashman]

I also wonder if there would be problems with powder aging due to outgassing in vacuum, but I'm not enough of a chemist to know.

I think that this is probably the biggest hurdle - ammunition has plenty of gas in the sealed casing, and I wonder if the pressure differential would damage every round in some way...if not just "ease" the projectile out of the casing, or damage the crimp...

--Neill

[7x57]

I think that this is probably the biggest hurdle - ammunition has plenty of gas in the sealed casing, and I wonder if the pressure differential would damage every round in some way...if not just "ease" the projectile out of the casing, or damage the crimp...

So let's think. A .45 round (about the largest caliber we'd expect to encounter, given that there are no elephants or cape buffalo in space) has a base area of about 0.16 in^2, so an atmosphere of pressure in the case would exert less than 2.5 lbs of force on the bullet. I guess that might bother some handloads, if the crimp is weak. I know I've loaded plenty of rounds for a bolt-action rifle that were only held in place by neck tension, but I could have crimped them if I'd had a reason to. Semi-autos have to deal with feedramp setback already, so I expect them to be able to take more force than that.

Plus factories have plenty of tricks we don't do, such as using adhesive on the bullet. If they want it to work in space there will be no problem.

7x57

[TheBundo]

Whenever I go out to space, I always take my revolver and lever action carbine. I wouldn't take a chance on the semi-auto. Plus the Zorlons are intimidated by the Lever-Action, as The Rifleman broadcasts are just beginning to reach them

[trashman]

So let's think. A .45 round (about the largest caliber we'd expect to encounter, given that there are no elephants or cape buffalo in space) has a base area of about 0.16 in^2, so an atmosphere of pressure in the case would exert less than 2.5 lbs of force on the bullet.

The math doesn't lie -- excellent point.

--Neill

[fusionstar]

if water can get in my rounds, air can get out

[56Chevy]

Whenever I go out to space, I always take my revolver and lever action carbine. I wouldn't take a chance on the semi-auto. Plus the Zorlons are intimidated by the Lever-Action, as The Rifleman broadcasts are just beginning to reach them

How do you pull the trigger with the big space gloves on?

[dixieD]

The best thing about space, far from Earth is that you would get a true flat trajectory, and you would have terminal velocity (at target not to be confused with terminal velocity) that is the same as muzzle velocity. Imagine 1897 ft-lbs of energy at 1000 yards distance with a 308!

[TheBundo]

How do you pull the trigger with the big space gloves on?

Rig your lever action like Lucas McCains, so you don't need to pull the trigger. They are still available. Click on "Own a Rifle"

http://www.riflemansrifle.com/

[7x57]

if water can get in my rounds, air can get out

Yep, they'll equalize pressure (which in space means losing all pressure, except for the vapor pressure of the volatiles in the powder). I recall a description of a test in a reloading manual (probably the .45-70 blackpowder in the Speer manual, but I don't recall) where they loaded the ammo several days before the test to make sure that all were at the same (atmospheric) internal pressure.

It would be sort of interesting to know if there is more leakage past the bullet or the primer.

7x57