Concealed Carry in home?

[Sam]

After reading those two threads, I'll never understand why people question others' desire to carry concealed or not in their own home.

[NiteQwill]

Where does it say that in the PC?

Overturf law applies in a school zone. I have to look up the case law, but yes, you cannot carry a gun outside your home (even on your lawn) in a school zone.

[Omega13device]

Overturf law applies in a school zone. I have to look up the case law, but yes, you cannot carry a gun outside your home (even on your lawn) in a school zone.

Check the PC before you post next time.

The "school zone" rule (626.9 PC) includes an exception for private property:

626.9. (a) This section shall be known, and may be cited, as the
Gun-Free School Zone Act of 1995.
(b) Any person who possesses a firearm in a place that the person
knows, or reasonably should know, is a school zone, as defined in
paragraph (1) of subdivision (e), unless it is with the written
permission of the school district superintendent, his or her
designee, or equivalent school authority, shall be punished as
specified in subdivision (f).
(c) Subdivision (b) does not apply to the possession of a firearm
under any of the following circumstances:
(1) Within a place of residence or place of business or on private
property, if the place of residence, place of business, or private
property is not part of the school grounds and the possession of the
firearm is otherwise lawful.

Moreover, Overturf was convicted of violating 12031 PC (loaded carry), not 12025 (concealed) so I don't see how the case law there can possibly apply to concealed. But you're welcome to prove me wrong, here's the decision: http://www.calccw.com/Forums/legal/5...-outdoors.html.

[DVLDOC]

I carry concealed (as opposed to open carry) at home for a couple reasons. First, it doesn't alarm my non-gun friends when they come over to visit - they don't see it. Second, carrying open isn't always convenient - the gun bumps into furniture, dings my cabinets, and gets in my way when I'm lounging on the couch. CCW IWB works much better.

Turby

+1

[GuyW]

Moreover, Overturf was convicted of violating 12031 PC (loaded carry), not 12025 (concealed) so I don't see how the case law there can possibly apply to concealed. But you're welcome to prove me wrong, here's the decision: http://www.calccw.com/Forums/legal/5...-outdoors.html.

Overturf talks about public places that are privately owned:

"Appellant argues that subdivision (f) exempts him from liability both because the incident took place on property which constitutes his place of business within the meaning of subdivision (f) and on property which, while "public" within the definition of subdivision (a), nevertheless was his private property within subdivision (f)."

He lost - private property can be a "public place".

Whether that's just dicta or not I dunno, but IMHO it could support an arrest and prosecution for concealed carry in "public" (without an exception)
.

[Decoligny]

You can carry anyway you'd like in your home or on your property - no law againt it as your front yard is not a public right of way, its private property for a single family home. The question is why do you feel you need to carry at all in your home or in your yard????

Because that is where the most important and valuable things in my life are located.

My wife is at home, all my stuff is at home, and I refuse to be caught sitting unarmed in my den if some group of crackheads decide to kick my door in and do a home invasion/robbery/rape/murder.

I have seen several groups of stray/loose dogs running past my house on occasion, including several pit bulls. If I happen to be in my yard, and one of these dogs decides he wants to know what my throat tastes like, I would like to have some other option than being a scooby-snack.

The thing is, you NEVER know where or when you will NEED a gun. If you have invented a threat-o-meter that can tell me exactly when and exactly where I will need a gun, then I will pay whatever you are asking for it. Till then, I will carry my gun everywhere that I can legally carry it.

[Decoligny]

This has been debated numerous times here, do a search.

Private property that's physically open to anybody just walking in = no concealed, no loaded....no s$%^
.

No concealed = true.
No loaded = Not necessarily true. If you live in unincorporated territory where it is legal to discharge a firearm, then you can Open Carry Loaded.

[tombinghamthegreat]

Overturf talks about public places that are privately owned.

"Appellant argues that subdivision (f) exempts him from liability both because the incident took place on property which constitutes his place of business within the meaning of subdivision (f) and on property which, while "public" within the definition of subdivision (a), nevertheless was his private property within subdivision (f)."

He lost - private property can be a "public place".

Whether that's just dicta or not I dunno, but IMHO it could support a prosecution for concealed carry in "public" (without an exception)
.

It can be but if the property is has like a 6 foot fence surrounding the property with locked gates then this would not apply because it cannot be considered public.

[Decoligny]

Regarding "outside on your property" --- Not within 1000ft of a school -

I think you are wrong on this one.

626.9 doesn't have the "while in any public place" wording that will get you in trouble like 12031.

In fact 626.9 has a specific exemption for "on private property".

626.9. (a) This section shall be known, and may be cited, as the
Gun-Free School Zone Act of 1995.
(b) Any person who possesses a firearm in a place that the person
knows, or reasonably should know, is a school zone, as defined in
paragraph (1) of subdivision (e), unless it is with the written
permission of the school district superintendent, his or her
designee, or equivalent school authority, shall be punished as
specified in subdivision (f).
(c) Subdivision (b) does not apply to the possession of a firearm
under any of the following circumstances:
(1) Within a place of residence or place of business or on private
property, if the place of residence, place of business, or private
property is not part of the school grounds and the possession of the
firearm is otherwise lawful.

[M1A Rifleman]

Because that is where the most important and valuable things in my life are located.

The thing is, you NEVER know where or when you will NEED a gun. If you have invented a threat-o-meter that can tell me exactly when and exactly where I will need a gun, then I will pay whatever you are asking for it. Till then, I will carry my gun everywhere that I can legally carry it.

Or, I guess another option is to be blessed to live in a location where this stuff does not occur or have the need to really worry. In fifteen years, I have only had to pull a handgun once at home due to a perceived threat, and was the fastest I ever opened the safe. So my question was to get a felling of what the OP was thinking.

[Decoligny]

Or, I guess another option is to be blessed to live in a location where this stuff does not occur or have the need to really worry. In fifteen years, I have only had to pull a handgun once at home due to a perceived threat, and was the fastest I ever opened the safe. So my question was to get a felling of what the OP was thinking.

That one time if you had been in a different room, you may not have made it to your safe in time. There is no "safe place" that is exempt from the possibility of the unthinkable happening.

A "safe quiet neighborhood" is often the target of the thief/rapist/murderer, because it is where nobody would expect anything bad to happen, so they have victims who are likely to be unprepared to respond to the attack.

I live in a rural area that for the most part is safe. However, there have been home invasions in every type of neighborhood you can think of. If there is 1 chance in a million that something bad will happen, a person would have to be a fool not to be prepared for that 1.

[M1A Rifleman]

[QUOTE=Decoligny;2157061]That one time if you had been in a different room, you may not have made it to your safe in time. There is no "safe place" that is exempt from the possibility of the unthinkable happening.
QUOTE]

What you mean, I was in a different room. I needed to get through two rooms and a closet before I got to the safe. No problem, It gave time slow down and think about the plan, the situation etc., rather than just shooting like some loon.

I guess I'm lucky currently in that I'm living around cops. I've really not had to be all that worried. I also don't live in fear, which seems to be a common scenario in this post sounds.

The only other time away from home that I had a problem was in college, and I'm glad that I was not armed at the time, as I was pissed enough to have used it.

[Omega13device]

Overturf talks about public places that are privately owned.

"Appellant argues that subdivision (f) exempts him from liability both because the incident took place on property which constitutes his place of business within the meaning of subdivision (f) and on property which, while "public" within the definition of subdivision (a), nevertheless was his private property within subdivision (f)."

He lost - private property can be a "public place".

Whether that's just dicta or not I dunno, but IMHO it could support a prosecution for concealed carry in "public" (without an exception)
.

The decision hinged on the distinction between "having" and "carrying" a loaded firearm on private property. The issue of what's private vs. public wasn't taken up as far as I can tell from reading the decision, maybe I'm wrong but I don't see it.
ETA: I wrote the above but then realized it's incorrect. If it were clear that your driveway could not be considered part of "any public place or any public street" as stated in 12031, then Overturf would have been acquitted. So in that sense Overturf does speak to private/public...but only for loaded. 12026 still provides for legal open/unloaded or concealed/unloaded carry on your private property.

ETA2: Since the private property exception in 626.9 uses the word "possession" which is similar "having" in 12031, I'm second guessing my earlier post about school zones. If you carried, even unloaded, in a "public" part of your private property that was also in a school zone you might have deal with the Overturf precedent.

[Moto4Fun]

You guys are spinning my head, are your attorneys?! From the posted PCs I don't see anything that says unloaded/concealed carry is OK, but loaded concealed carry is not. In fact in all of the reading I have done here, I have never heard anybody say anything about unloaded concealed carry.

Is there a definition in the PC that states what is considered private property with public access? Or do we always have to refer to case law for that? My interpretation of this would be like a shopping center that I own, or an apartment complex that I own, a business that I own. I would consider that private property that has public access. I would not consider any part of my home or property to be publicly accessible. I also don't have a sidewalk in front my house, so there is no confusion about passers by being able to easily step onto my property.

I do carry concealed on my property. If someone comes looking for trouble, there is not limit to when or how they may do it. I would never make a decision to carry or not carry based on how many times in my life I have needed a weapon, and I certainly don't think a gun safe is a place to keep a home defense gun regardless of how fast it can be opened. I do not live in fear.

[Omega13device]

You guys are spinning my head, are your attorneys?! From the posted PCs I don't see anything that says unloaded/concealed carry is OK, but loaded concealed carry is not. In fact in all of the reading I have done here, I have never heard anybody say anything about unloaded concealed carry.

I'm not a lawyer and I'm not representing this as legal advice - read the law yourself and do your own research in the California Penal Code.

Concealed carry and loaded carry are covered in different parts of the penal code. Quick summary:

12025 - Prohibits concealed carry without a permit.
12026 - Contains exceptions to 12025 including carrying concealed in your residence, place of business, or on your lawfully possessed private property. Note that it also says "Nothing in this section shall be construed as affecting the application of Section 12031."
12031 - Prohibits carrying of a firearm on your person or in your vehicle "in any public place or on any public street in an incorporated city or in any public place or on any public street in a prohibited area of unincorporated territory"

To answer your question though, 12026 (concealed) makes a clear exception for "carrying" concealed on your private property. 12031 (loaded) has a similar exception but only for "having" a loaded firearm on your property. The Overturf precedent was that "having" did not include carrying. So you may carry concealed on your private property but not loaded. There is no law prohibiting unloaded carry on your property, so it is legal as long as you're not in violation of some other statute (under 18, felon, school zone, or whatever).

Is there a definition in the PC that states what is considered private property with public access? Or do we always have to refer to case law for that? My interpretation of this would be like a shopping center that I own, or an apartment complex that I own, a business that I own. I would consider that private property that has public access. I would not consider any part of my home or property to be publicly accessible. I also don't have a sidewalk in front my house, so there is no confusion about passers by being able to easily step onto my property.

There have been threads on this topic and there isn't a clear answer. You can take a guess at part of it from Overturf. Obviously his driveway was considered a "public place" even though it was on his private property. Personally I don't plan to be a test case for this question.

I do carry concealed on my property. If someone comes looking for trouble, there is not limit to when or how they may do it. I would never make a decision to carry or not carry based on how many times in my life I have needed a weapon, and I certainly don't think a gun safe is a place to keep a home defense gun regardless of how fast it can be opened. I do not live in fear.

Well said. Just be mindful of the issues related to loaded carry I outlined above.

Also, read the penal code carefully yourself. There's a lot of detail in there. My summary is not the whole story.