Springfield Armory capitulates in Illinois

[The Fugitive]

I wanted a loaded 9, probably get something else,

[Discogodfather]

The author, Bob Owens, has been coming out as a mouthpiece for SA/RRA where ever he can since this thing broke. I wouldn't take what he has to say as being worth much myself.

That guy sounds like a complete schill. I love these arguments about how businesses need to do horrible things in order to stay in business, and that people just don't get how the system works. To hell with the system and these apologists.

I never liked Springfield for many reasons. They are not at all related to the long 100 year history of America's government run firearms manufacture / inventor yet they shamelessly taunt it at every opportunity in their marketing and advertising. I collect C&R and have always thought it should be illegal for companies to piggyback these legitimate legacies. We fought two major world wars with guns made by people of a specific organization and this business is using that to sell garbage that is in no way related to this legacy.

The second thing is there crappy M1A receivers. MIM and cast receivers also is a spit in the eye of the legacy of Springfield, which John Garand spent millions of taxpayer dollars to produce the finest cast forged receivers that the money could buy. To make the modern equivalent out of die casting is just el cheapo. They do it for pure financial reasons and no one in the world in their right minds would ever choose a die casting over a forged casting. CHEAPO.

Next is their pistol line which is a just another graft of legacies, taking a Croatian companies products and through a marketing scheme and re-brand trying to pass this off as an American made product. Yet another thumb in the eye for the legacy of a wholly operated American company. CHEAPO. Have the guts to market them truthfully as a product made in Crotia by Croatians, no shame there and no knock on that companies products.

Reading about this latest fiasco it seems completely likely that Springfield and Reese basically funded a group that claimed to be pro 2A that did a deal whereby they are exempt for legislation forcing gun dealers into bad positions. Then they claimed that this entity did something without their approval, what a joke. The situation clearly benefited SA and RRA directly in that it hurt their competition.

I rarely get on the bandwagon about any of this manufacturer stuff but Jesus, isn't it time to admit this company is bogus and should be boycotted out of existence. Garand was already rolling in his grave even before this debacle. They have taken a symbol of American might and ingenuity and turned it into a laughing stock.

[Dago Red]

I am amazed at the crucifixion taking place. How quick as a "community" some gun owners are willing to burn a gun company to the ground when the actual issue in the country is we are outnumbered at the voting booths and the media is in league with the anti-gun politicians.

We all admire companies like barret (who told California to stick 50's in their arse when they banned them here) and magpul who left Colorado when that state went CA on them. The truth is many gun companies made business decisions that when in committee probably seem like the lesser of evil choices. And many gun companies have done nothing. Glock and s&w could have got together and told California hey if you're limiting what citizens can have we won't sell anything different to your officers either. They didn't. Nobody tries to kill them off.

Springfield makes great guns and has great customer service in my experience. im more upset that they stopped making the trophy match in 40 than I am by this. I imagine that those making decisions looked at a lot of options and this was a decision made with difficulty.

If you really want to be angry be angry at the media outlets that make money from us and claim to be pro 2a but haven't done everything in their power to help. When California started the lead ban and went from 5 pig tags for $x to 1 per $x+ I wrote letters to two of the biggest hunting rags (IIRC field and stream was one) asking them to help organize a statewide hunting and fishing boycott, never heard anything.

Stop being mad at Springfield and start asking why are we losing?! Supposedly gun ownership is up and new younger shooters are coming into it in higher numbers. Why do stupid laws still get passed? We aren't organized, we don't have credible, sane sounding media outlets helping spread good information and combatting the bad. And maybe we as gun owners aren't doing enough to educate other people.

I just think asking Springfield to try and do what millions of individuals aren't doing to ensure our rights are left in place isn't reasonable and punishing a good company for not doing what some of us view as "enough" is unfair. This to me is not "proof" that they don't care about us, America or the 2 amendment. **** people, we are so easily divided and turn on each other, no wonder FFL's are closing and our rights are disappearing.

springfield if I lived in a free state ID go buy a bunch of your stuff right now

Red

[Discogodfather]

Stop making excuses for horrible actions made by companies that could care less about you, gun owners, or their workers.

Springfield makes great guns? Really? You mean the imported Croatian stuff? How about the cast receivers, are they great? Because I can think of greater things made by others for relatively the same price.

And as for the "woe is the plight of gun rights" maybe you need to take a look around and see that we have a pro gun president and soon to be judiciary. Time to go on the offensive and RAISE THE BAR. Time to ask "why are we winning" not "why are we losing". We are losing because companies make horrible decisions and sell us out, if we are "losing" at all.

The outrage at this garbage from Springfield is nothing compared to the meely mouthed apologists crafting endless excuses. You don't need to make excuses for someone who has shown they don't give a damn about you.

[Chapped Hide]

Springfield makes great guns? Really?

They do make great 1911's, there's no arguing that. I just won't be spending any more of my money on them.

[penguinofsleep]

...Rather is states the counter argument that donations are part of the normal "pay to play" culture of corrupt Illinois politics.

The author, Bob Owens, has been coming out as a mouthpiece for SA/RRA where ever he can since this thing broke...

While I too strongly disagree with what SA and RRA are doing, etc, I am actually reserving judgement against SA and RRA for now (not that any of the below would make it "right" or excusable):

- Occurred in IL. While I have no firm data, the fact that this is in IL my mind immediately make me think of corrupt politicians and political games. The likes of Blagojevich, Ryan, and Obama immediately come to mind. (I could also talk about how there are many more I just don't like such Rahm Emanual but that's a diff story). Point being I strongly suspect there may be other games or things going on behind the scenes, especially when the industry is "guns" and "IL" or "Chicago" are involved.
1. Was it one particular person in their mfg assoc who made a backroom deal with someone?
2. Being in IL, is this actually part of some political game that would say pave the way for a very good law suit?
3. Was someone/group squeezing the companies or association in some way or another and this was simply part of pay to play (which as bad as it is, imo a few/limited gun sales beats 0 gun sales)?
4. What else was going on that we don't know about?

[penguinofsleep]

With that being said if they really did support this and it wasn't someone twisting arms and putting RRA + SA into a corner, then I hope those responsible lose their jobs, golden parachutes (if any), etc.

I also hope the knowledge base and skilled workers (ex those who work on the 1911's) do not disappear and they can find jobs doing similar things (if they so desire) as I suspect they had little or 0 to do with this and are simply suffering from the bad decision/s of a or a few persons. It would be a shame if significant knowledge was lost simply because someone needed to (understandably) provide for their family.

[Discogodfather]

Slimy people tend not to atone for their transgressions. I predict more double talk and more denials and more excuses. They gave money to anti-gun politicians, made deals with lawmakers to better themselves with no regards to others, then they lied about it when confronted. People expecting a Mea culpa are going to discover quickly how "business" works. They are going to hire more meely mouthed PR people to distract and diffuse.

[-hanko]

Stop making excuses for horrible actions made by companies that could care less about you, gun owners, or their workers.

Springfield makes great guns? Really? You mean the imported Croatian stuff? How about the cast receivers, are they great? Because I can think of greater things made by others for relatively the same price.

The outrage at this garbage from Springfield is nothing compared to the meely mouthed apologists crafting endless excuses. You don't need to make excuses for someone who has shown they don't give a damn about you.

GoatBoy, Kes' equivalent at ar15.com, wrote a bit on the situation. He makes some good points. Link to the thread on arf...
Rock-River-Arms--Springfield-Arms--and-IFMA

[KrisDSA]

GoatBoy, Kes' equivalent at ar15.com, wrote a bit on the situation. He makes some good points. Link to the thread on arf...
Rock-River-Arms--Springfield-Arms--and-IFMA

Thanks for the link.


They RRA/SA can say they didn't know anything about this but they were told in January on what Jay was working on.

[Discogodfather]

GoatBoy, Kes' equivalent at ar15.com, wrote a bit on the situation. He makes some good points. Link to the thread on arf...
Rock-River-Arms--Springfield-Arms--and-IFMA

I read it and it makes two meely mouthed points:

1) IMFA was not under their control and acted without their knowledge
2) They gave anti-gun politicians money because "that's the way the system worked"

If you can stomach this dribble, by all means act as if this is just a misunderstanding. What complete and utter nonsense.

[-hanko]

I read it and it makes two meely mouthed points:

1) IMFA was not under their control and acted without their knowledge
2) They gave anti-gun politicians money because "that's the way the system worked"

If you can stomach this dribble, by all means act as if this is just a misunderstanding. What complete and utter nonsense.

No disagreement...I posted it as part of the discussion but have no opinion as I didn't get much past page 2. I don't doubt that in Illinois (as in most other states) that is the way the system works.

[Discogodfather]

No disagreement...I posted it as part of the discussion but have no opinion as I didn't get much past page 2. I don't doubt that in Illinois (as in most other states) that is the way the system works.

Thanks for posting it, I am trying to be objective and find an explanation that passes the smell test. Artisan Tony on youtube also made overtures to try and calm things down, he has a few videos trying to explain their POV.

Springfield is one of the largest gun companies in the USA. Only thing that would satisfy me at this point is a complete mea culpa by management followed by a departure. But the Reese brothers are owners, so fat chance. They will just let it diffuse and pay PR to fix things. Makes me even more sick.

[socal147]

Speaking out got the gun community denial and a PR campaign.
Whatever your point of view ...
The best way to address this situation is with your wallet.

[beanz2]

The author, Bob Owens, has been coming out as a mouthpiece for SA/RRA where ever he can since this thing broke. I wouldn't take what he has to say as being worth much myself.

Ummmm, is this the same Bob Owens who committed suicide yesterday?

https://bearingarms.com/jenn-j/2017/05/09/we-are-diminished/