Gun muzzling during stagecoach "holdup"

[onelonehorseman]

I can't believe this thread is still going . . .

This is a case where there is simply no correct answer to the OP's question, since the answer from any given respondent will depend on their own values, experiences, beliefs, etc.

[SomeGuy75]

Someguy75, I hope you shoot more accurately than you read.

LOL my reading comprehension is just fine. Just like after reading your post I comprehend how hard you are trying to backpedal and justify your irrational fear. Your "think of the children" argument is as lame as it is when the Governor uses it.
Rather than make an issue to the owner, you should have spent that time explaining to the child the difference between theater and real life. Because any normal person with at least a little bit of common sense if going to realize the guns that are used in a theatrical performance are either fake or inert.
I have this picture of this kid going to a play in 20 years and seeing Tybalt draw a sword on Romeo. He jumps up, pulls his CCW and busts a cap in the Tybalt's azz lol. If only Grandpa had told me the difference...

[bk23103]

You took it too far, OP. Your boys were right to point it out to you, but you could have left it at that.

[Wordupmybrotha]

OP, I'm assuming you're not in the entertainment industry? Because if you were, movies such as John Wick, Killer, Lethal Weapon, Matrix, or any of the westerns wouldn't have been made, because the actors and production crew would have been muzzle swept by prop guns. And guns in live theater would be out of the question since the audience would be muzzle swept.

You say you had a nice chat with the owner...Well, after enough of those nice chats, the owner will just say, muck it. I've had enough. That's how it ruins it for everyone, wiping guns from our culture little by little, ironically because of pro-2A people who are all about the safety rules.

[71MUSTY]

The way I read it is that it looked like a real gun and it was a real gun, with the owner stating it was "nonfunctioning" (a euphemism for "unloaded?") and only AFTER the OP made the call.

If the bandit had a Nerf gun or a pop tart shaped gun, or the OP called to *complain* (not merely to provide feedback), then by all means I'd say the OP went too far and deserves the flaming. From what I gathered, including later posts by the OP, he is not only teaching his grandkids proper safety, but also how to properly raise concerns.

Let's say that the OP lets it slide when a real gun muzzles his family. What is the excuse to ignore such a fundamental safety violation? Saying "it's a prop" is not an option because they don't know whether it is and all signs point to it being a real gun. Saying "don't worry, it's unloaded" is, well, Darwin award category. Saying "don't worry, they know what they're doing" would be silly, especially if the production was set up by a CalGuns member...

Really you think non-functioning is a euphemism for "unloaded? Too bad the law disagrees with you. Lot of prisoners would be free right now it the law treated unloaded = non function.

[oakdalecurtis]

IVC, why are you one of the few that read what I actually stated, it was clearly and obviously a REAL GUN. So many comments here suggest the gun said "prop gun" or "non functioning REAL GUN" on it, it didn't. I'm not sure why so many posters here feel a need to go to a straw man discussion about prop guns, non working guns, nerf guns, or ffpaintball guns, since none of those were what was used here. A REAL GUN was used, unchecked by us, his finger on the trigger, pointed at close range to our faces. Now if the posted responses deal with those issues, I respect the opinions, even if I disagree. But I didn't anticipate the rest of the comments that do not even deal with the actual facts given. These type of posts are just irrelevant tripe mixed in with a helping of grade school name calling and lame labeling, instead of dealing with the real issues that were raised by the event. Thank you for understanding what happened and trying to relate to the actual facts and issues of the event, and then responding with adult opinion and attitude. I would not have guessed that would be so hard for so many.

[Wordupmybrotha]

IVC, why are you one of the few that read what I actually stated, it was clearly and obviously a REAL GUN. So many comments here suggest the gun said "prop gun" or "non functioning REAL GUN" on it, it didn't. I'm not sure why so many posters here feel a need to go to a straw man discussion about prop guns, non working guns, nerf guns, or ffpaintball guns, since none of those were what was used here. A REAL GUN was used, unchecked by us, his finger on the trigger, pointed at close range to our faces. Now if the posted responses deal with those issues, I respect the opinions, even if I disagree. But I didn't anticipate the rest of the comments that do not even deal with the actual facts given. These type of posts are just irrelevant tripe mixed in with a helping of grade school name calling and lame labeling, instead of dealing with the real issues that were raised by the event. Thank you for understanding what happened and trying to relate to the actual facts and issues of the event, and then responding with adult opinion and attitude. I would not have guessed that would be so hard for so many.

OP, then why didn't you knock the gun away or shield your grandkids?

[IVC]

Really you think non-functioning is a euphemism for "unloaded? Too bad the law disagrees with you. Lot of prisoners would be free right now it the law treated unloaded = non function.

What I mean is that if a small production manager/owner tells you "the gun is nonfunctioning" there is a good chance that it was just unloaded and nothing more. Otherwise, I would expect him to say "the gun wasn't real" or "it was a prop, not a gun."

"Nonfunctioning" sounds like PR vocabulary.

[numpty]

I guess you guys have never seen a war reenactment

I saw a reenactment of the battle of Antietam. It's the only one I've ever seen. I think it's cool that people are keeping that alive, but it was a little weird to me.

I guess the actors get into character for the whole weekend or whatever. I was walking by some of the tents and people were sitting around pretending they were actually in 1862. I guess I don't completely "get it" but it was cool. Also, people would get shot, get bored and stand back up and start shooting again. There was a fire that started in the grass and a firetruck drove out into the middle of the battle to put it out. Everyone acted like it wasn't there.

I'd go watch another one.

But I think it's good the OP has taught his grandsons. It's kind of counter-intuitive I guess, but I tell my son the same thing about his nerf guns. Unless you're going to shoot someone, don't point it at them. He's always ready to shoot though, it gets kind of annoying.

[SomeGuy75]

OP, then why didn't you knock the gun away or shield your grandkids?

Exactly. By the OPs logic he would have been legally justified to draw his CCW and open fire. I mean there is a man with a "real" gun threatening you and your family right? Justified shooting.
Seems legit.

Just let it go dude. You posted on an open forum and asked for opinions. Now you are all butthurt because the vast majority of us told you you were wrong. That's a page out of the liberal playbook. If you can't handle the answers, don't ask the question.

[section31]

Firearms safety does not apply if there is no firearm

[CouchOperator]

I saw a reenactment of the battle of Antietam. It's the only one I've ever seen. I think it's cool that people are keeping that alive, but it was a little weird to me.

I guess the actors get into character for the whole weekend or whatever. I was walking by some of the tents and people were sitting around pretending they were actually in 1862. I guess I don't completely "get it" but it was cool. Also, people would get shot, get bored and stand back up and start shooting again. There was a fire that started in the grass and a firetruck drove out into the middle of the battle to put it out. Everyone acted like it wasn't there.

I'd go watch another one.

But I think it's good the OP has taught his grandsons. It's kind of counter-intuitive I guess, but I tell my son the same thing about his nerf guns. Unless you're going to shoot someone, don't point it at them. He's always ready to shoot though, it gets kind of annoying.

Lol yeah.Even if you arent a fan of the show, that South Park episode of the 1864 episode was great, hit reenactments on the nose

[71MUSTY]

Good thing some of you never go to Turners. Every time a Turner's employee shows a customer a handgun they muzzle someone.

I guess I'm just not someone who gets all freaked out about being muzzle swept.

Even at the range I don't freak and dive for cover. I make it a teaching moment.

The odds of me actually being shot by a prop gun an actor uses in a Train Robbery skit have to be about equal or less then the odds the train will go off the tracks, the boiler will explode or I'll get bit by a brown Recluse while riding the train.

[gorn5150]

I think you took it too far. It is good that you are training your grandkids but I see a huge glaring hole in their training.

At no time did one of them try to roll up the stagecoach window and ask if they were being detained.

[calif 15-22]

My children were taught how to tell the difference between a real gun and a fake gun. They were also tough what to do with a real gen, Including, not playing with them.

Are you one of those parents who ask the neighbor's if they have gun's and if they say yes, you don't let your kid's play there?

Sorry Musty I gotta call you out on this one. OP's grand kid's are 8 and 11, and there is NO WAY they could tell if that gun used in that show on that day was a toy or real. As OP mentioned it was in fact a real gun, just unloaded and non functional which there was no way for him or those kids to know that.

Hell there have been at least 3 shootings I can remember where trained law enforcement thought the gun was real and shot a kid.

Now sure if a real black gun was on the table next to a orange and blue nerf gun then yeah your kids could tell the difference, but that was not the case here. OP has stated in multiple posts the GUN WAS REAL all be unloaded.

Some of you guys crack me up. Posts with pop tart guns or nerf Guns or rubber band shooters as kids. Even talk of movies and TV shows where NONE OF YOU had the gun in your face. Talk about bending a story to meet your side or opinion.

OP I suggest letting this thread die. Seriously you are not going to change the mind of anyone here, nor will they change your's, mine, or the few others here who agree with you.

Like in the Old Westerns with the real looking guns, the Cowboy just needs to walk away.