Calling all Scientists-LEAD POISONING!!!

[XDJYo]

Get a blood test if you are that worried about it.

I believe the OP is planning on doing so, or has. What he is bringing up is that many doctors do not know the actual risks of our sport. There are very few doctors that actually shoot and/or reload, so they wouldn't have any actual first hand knowledge on how to mitigate lead contamination based on experience.

I think we should all request a heavy metal or a lead-only blood test periodically. This will give us some indication of where we stand. Like another poster stated, we may not exhibit any symptoms of lead poisoning. But, then again, here's the list from the mayo clinic website:
*High blood pressure
*Joint and muscle pain
*Difficulties with memory or concentration
*Headache
*Abdominal pain
*Mood disorders
*Reduced sperm count and abnormal sperm
*Miscarriage, stillbirth or premature birth in pregnant women

How many of these symptoms can be explained by something else or even not noticed by casual observation?

What about those that don't present as symptoms? Such as kidney problems?

Here is the first sentence under Symptoms and Causes:

http://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-conditions/lead-poisoning/home/ovc-20275050

Please people, be careful. Some problems caused by lead poisoning can't be cured.

[Milsurp Collector]

My point was that after four decades of fairly regular exposure to lead, I do not exhibit even a tiny symptomatic manifestation of of lead poisoning. However, you may be correct. Perhaps I am "suffering" from asymptomatic lead poisoning. We'll never know.

You'll never know unless you get tested. Maybe you're just afraid to find out.

Ever hear of syphilis, the sexually transmitted disease? It goes through several stages. When first infected, the patient will develop a sore (chancre). Even without treatment, it eventually heals and goes away. They do not exhibit even a tiny symptomatic manifestation of syphilis. They think everything is fine. But they still have syphilis.

Then it progresses to secondary syphilis, with a rash and other symptoms. Even without treatment, after 1 to 3 months the rash and other symptoms of secondary syphilis go away. They do not exhibit even a tiny symptomatic manifestation of syphilis. They think everything is fine. But they still have syphilis.

Then syphilis can go into a latent (dormant) phase with no symptoms. They do not exhibit even a tiny symptomatic manifestation of syphilis. They think everything is fine. But they still have syphilis.

But if the infection isn't discovered and treated, syphilis may then progress to a tertiary stage characterized by severe problems with the heart, brain, and nerves that can result in paralysis, blindness, dementia, deafness, impotence, and even death if it's not treated. Even if the infection is treated the damage already done is irreversible.

Infection with Hepatitis C is another condition that is often asymptomatic. 80% of patients are not symptomatic when they get infected with hep C. But if untreated the patient can develop cirrhosis of the liver or liver cancer. But they feel fine until that happens.

Lead poisoning, syphilis, and hepatitis C are all serious health conditions that can be completely free of symptoms until they cause serious damage to the body. Which is a shame, because they can all be tested for and treated to prevent serious consequences down the road.

Again, if you have had as much lead exposure as you described, the fact that you haven't experienced or recognized any symptoms proves nothing. Testing for blood lead level is a simple blood test. You aren't afraid of needles, are you? For your own sake, ask your doctor to check your blood lead level if nothing else just so you can have the satisfaction of proving me wrong. I would be very happy for you if that happened.

[ugimports]

I've been shooting hard cast lead bullets for the past 25 years. I've been casting lead bullets for at least 15 years. I've smelted about a ton of lead wheel weights and another six or seven hundred pounds of linotype. I've been handling pure lead airgun pellets for 40 years and have been shooting firearms for at least that long. I exercise basic personal hygiene and respiratory precautions - by respiratory precautions, I mean standing upwind from a smelting pot or placing a fan by my casting pot to blow the smoke and fumes away from my face.

I am fine. My wife is fine. My adult sons are fine. Maybe my lead levels are a little elevated - I wouldn't know because I experience none of the symptoms of lead poisoning and thus have no interest in being tested.

I've known a LOT of shooters over the years and never have I heard anyone complain about lead poisoning. Not once.

Honestly, I think people react a little hysterically when it comes to lead.

I thought that last sentence too.. so I got my initial test to just prove that everyone was full of crap. That was about 2 years ago and now I monitor it because while I didn't show ANY signs of anything my levels were elevated. I do NOT handle lead as much as you describe and my levels were up to the level of 14 (ppb I think) which was enough to get me an OSHA warning.

As others have mentioned if you ever do exhibit the signs of lead poisoning it's likely too late.

[Hinnerk]

I'm a regular blood donor (over 6 gal so far). I wonder whether it is possible to have lead effects from transfusion of blood from an elevated donor (especially adult to children). Does Red Cross test for Pb?

[lawj11]

OP, here. Yes, I have an appointment schedule with my son's pediatrician in a couple of weeks. I will request the Pb test for him and follow-up here by posting the results. Initially, I wasn't going to test myself, but after hearing some of the stories on this thread I think I will. Thank you everyone for contributing.

[Metal God]

Growing up I fished A LOT . I used to bite down on the lead split shot to clamp it to my line . In fact I did that well into my adult life

Now how often was that really ? Not sure , it's not like I did it every day multiple times a day . When in my teens I fished 2 or 3 times a week . Some days I only needed to weight my line once . While other days I clamped many split shots on to me lines .

Interesting and a little bit of a scary thought right there . I had not thought about that until just now .

[XDJYo]

Growing up I fished A LOT . I used to bite down on the lead split shot to clamp it to my line . In fact I did that well into my adult life



Now how often was that really ? Not sure , it's not like I did it every day multiple times a day . When in my teens I fished 2 or 3 times a week . Some days I only needed to weight my line once . While other days I clamped many split shots on to me lines .



Interesting and a little bit of a scary thought right there . I had not thought about that until just now .

So, your screen name has nothing to do with music but it's about fishing? Lol!!!

[Whiterabbit]

I'm new to this forum, but figure there must be some pretty savvy and experienced individuals here. Does anyone here have expertise in the toxicology of lead? I'm a new shooter and have a young son (10 month old). I sometimes worry about exposing my little guy to "take home lead" and it negatively impacting his health. I asked my kid's pediatrician about this and she seemed surprised that I was concerned. She said that of course I would be exposed to lead at the range, but that my body could probably handle a little lead. I told her that I shoot once per month and that I change my clothes as soon as I get home, have a separate pair of "range shoes" that I leave outside and that I shower and change my clothes as soon as I get home. I also use TMJ ammo (sometimes with lead free primers, when I can find it). She said that I'm taking good precautions but that even without them I'd probably not be able to bring home enough lead to harm my child. I don't know if she is saying this because I shoot only at outdoor ranges or if she doesn't know what she's talking about. She went on to say that of her thousands of patients she can't think of one that tested high for lead, that it is extremely rare these days???? Can she possibly be right? I have read so many horror stories and articles out there that attest to the opposite. I'm skeptical and confused, just don't want to harm my kid. Don't even get me started on the though of cleaning my guns inside of my little apartment with no backyard or garage. I have no idea where I will clean them without risking exposing my kid to lead.

My son had slightly elevated lead levels once. I live in a house filled with lead paint. He was eating the chips.

You'll be fine. If you do something like cast lead in your backyard, take your shoes off before coming inside after casting day. If you go shooting, wash your hands before handling your son's milk bottle. If it seems like common sense, do it. Chances are, you don't need to go overkill on this. Just use reason.

If you are seriously worried about it, I mean truly concerned, go to the doctor and tell them you want to get an annual blood test for lead. You do this during your annual physical. If you don't take an annual physical, call your Dr. tomorrow and schedule a physical now. During the physical ask for a blood test.

For your son's 1 year checkup, do the same. If you missed it already, get it at 18 months or 2 years.

After one, two, or three clean passes, I suspect your concerns will vaporize.

And be sure to understand that the CA level of concern is HALF what the rest of the nation is concerned about. So if you get a fishing call from OSHA because your lead level came in at 6mg/dl, you just tell them that you are not exposed at work (they don't care about guns or you, they care about your employer exposing people to lead, they only see test results, not motivations to get testing), and don't worry. The rest of the nation starts to care at 10. And don't intervene till like 20.

FYI I used to not change shoes after casting, I smelt in my backyard with 100 lb of molten lead in a pot over a turkey frier, lead splatters get in the garage during casting and the worst I ever pulled was a 6. Now I change shoes to cast and wash my hands more than ever, I have had zero issues, and my children's lead levels is below detectable limits.

[Whiterabbit]

OP, here. Yes, I have an appointment schedule with my son's pediatrician in a couple of weeks. I will request the Pb test for him and follow-up here by posting the results. Initially, I wasn't going to test myself, but after hearing some of the stories on this thread I think I will. Thank you everyone for contributing.

You're doing it right. In the very unlikely event your son is high and you are low, start looking at your house, not shooting related. Your son doesn't need to be even 5 to start this witch hunt, if you are BDL and he is like, 3. Most likely, you'll pull a 4 or 5 and he will be under 2. Doc may say something, but in any other state that's a GTG.

[Geologist]

Anyone interested in the actual science and current regulatory status of lead should take a look at these sources

https://www.epa.gov/lead/learn-about-lead

FWIW, I do environmental work, not tree hugging, but assessment and clean ups, including lead in soil. As far as shooting related around children my main advice would be to limit exposure to airborne lead while cleaning a gun, reloading, etc. and absolutely keep kids away (and use breathing protection yourself) when melting lead if you ever do.

Otherwise your kids have more to worry about in lead in paint, pipes, etc. Oh, and don't let them eat the dirt at a shooting range!!

[Saym14]

Listen to your doctor

[Cokebottle]

Oh, and don't let them eat the dirt at a shooting range!!

I never got that.
I tried dirt once and didn't see what my friends found appetizing.

[Geologist]

I never got that.
I tried dirt once and didn't see what my friends found appetizing.

Kind of an inside joke. Most regulatory agencies determine their baseline maximum allowed concentrations of contaminants in soil as if there were roving herds of baby dirt eaters. (They use ingestion as the main factor)

Hence we end up with some pretty silly low numbers for what is allowed.

[bronco75a]

Not this thread again.

[Garand1911]

Testing your kid for lead is just silly.
Test yourself? Sure go ahead, there is no need to really.

I know full time firearms instructors, that work indoor ranges, and get lead tested once a year, and have no elevated levels.
The real danger is breathing in large quantities of concentrated lead dust.
Unless you are cleaning out the bullet trap at the range without PPE, weekly, then don't worry.
Your normal routine is fine. No problems cleaning guns in the house either, just don't let the kid eat your cleaning patches.