Calling all Scientists-LEAD POISONING!!!

[lawj11]

This has been discussed here in plenty of aspects on Calguns in the past. The differences between soluble lead, lead in chemicals and exposure through the skin by touch, and the negligible amount of solid lead particulate from the range which in measure is so minute, it's rare that with the precautions you are taking there is little to no transfer at all. Nothing to worry about.

The amount you are picking up from shooting, even at an indoor range is minute.

Drive down any one of California's highways with the windows open or on a motorcycle? You are probably exposing your kid to more asbestos and silica from truck and automotive brake dust, and from construction sites as you pass them in proximity, a poisoning on a regular basis that is susceptible to causing more serious issues to you and your kids, than the lifetime of hardly measurable and minimal amount of lead picked up coming home from the range for the few times you go a month.


.

Thank you for your input.

[Mojave Desert]

"Are you using Hoppe's No 9? Now THAT is some crazy nasty stuff."

Just looked up the SDS for Hoppes 9. http://www.hoppes.com/Hoppes/files/9...3e79cfc834.pdf
Yes it does have an ingredient that is considered a reproductive toxicant, teratogen, and a mutagen. The nasty ingredient? Ethanol.

[lawj11]

My suggestion is to not get to worked up over it and yes I have a young son. Think basic: wash your hands, change cloths that would absorb lead easily, lay down old towels to act as a barrier when cleaning, have good ventilation when cleaning, wipe down your guns and then heavy wet patch and/or spray down areas that need cleaning as this will suspend the lead, powder, copper. The simple stuff will always take care of the difficult if you look for a path. On a side note, I'd be more concerned with storage as that poses a greater hazard and the laws here for improper storage a stiff when it comes to children.

Sound like there is very little lead in the residue. This is good to know. Thank you for your advice.

[lawj11]

Boy, you sure triggered 'em didn't you? I really don't understand the troll accusations. Like an anti would make an account to post about how he's worried about lead poisoning. Wtf?

Your concerns are legitimate IMO. You would think anyone with half a brain would wonder the same thing, especially when involving kids. If you don't know, you don't know. Taking the word of some doctor is just plain stupid these days. Half of them were educated in a third world country, more as a vacation than education. They don't know what the hell they're talking about half the time, usually using a computer and plugging in your symptoms to a program.

Like I said, legitimate concern, but nothing to worry about. Take your clothes off in the laundry room and toss them directly in the washer, take a shower, you'll be fine. If you're shooting outdoors, even better. You could probably just wash your hands and change your clothes, but why risk it with your kids? You would feel like a real piece of **** if they ever did test higher than normal.

Slightly off topic, but didn't someone post here a year or two ago talking about how he can't believe he's testing high? Pretty sure that was here...

LOL, yeah man. I'm surprised people think I'm trolling. Coulda been worse, at least I wasn't called a liberal...no offense to my liberal friends (this is CA after all).

[lawj11]

"Are you using Hoppe's No 9? Now THAT is some crazy nasty stuff."

Just looked up the SDS for Hoppes 9. http://www.hoppes.com/Hoppes/files/9...3e79cfc834.pdf
Yes it does have an ingredient that is considered a reproductive toxicant, teratogen, and a mutagen. The nasty ingredient? Ethanol.

Wait are you being serious? Isn't ethanol the alcohol that we drink? LOL

[Garv]

Lots of good info above.

Shoot.
Wash hands and face at range.
Wash clothes (when you get home).
Clean guns on a towel, wash yourself and the towel.

Probably overkill for your level of shooting, but it is good you are concerned.

Clean the guns at a friends or parents garage if you do not have a discreet area.

Store the bullets in a locked box of some kind to avoid a toddler chewing on them or worse.

If you get a blood test and find lead, you have other sources to check.

Once a month is not much if you are as careful as you are being.

[billped]

Go to the range, have fun, and when you return home clean your guns and shower. 99.9% of the problem will be gone.

Lead is no-biggee for adults but damn dangerous for little ones, so thank you for being careful.

[sonofeugene]

'Never ceases to amaze me how many CalGun members are quick to call "troll". Geez.....

A legit question from a concerned parent.

And to all posting that the OP is trolling:

http://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/2015/05/daniel-zimmerman/pro-tip-how-to-deal-with-lead-exposure/

http://thewellarmedwoman.com/lead-and-the-shooting-range

Legit questions and legit concerns.

[Mojave Desert]

There are few ways you can be exposed to lead by the act of shooting.
1) Touching the exposed lead bullet of the cartridge. Lead transfers to fingers, fingers go in mouth.
2) Friction of the lead bullet vs. bore. Vaporizes lead out the muzzle, lead gas goes in nose/mouth/lungs.
3) Base of lead bullet vaporized by hot gasses. Vaporizes lead out the muzzle and cylinder gap, lead gas goes in nose/mouth/lungs.
4) Lead stanphynate primer produces lead gas. Vaporizes lead out the muzzle and cylinder gap, lead gas goes in nose/mouth/lungs.
5) Lead or lead core bullet strikes hard object, such as a steel backstop, steel target, or rock and fine lead dust is created. Lead dust goes in nose/mouth/lungs if you are close or wind is going the wrong way.
6) Cleaning of guns. Lead residue from fired bullets and primers come off and get on hands, then to mouth.
7) Reloading. Touching of lead bullets, see #1. Decapping dead primers exposes reloader to black dust which contains lead. Hands, nose, mouth, etc.

How to reduce your chances of lead contamination?
1) Use TMJ bullets, not just FMJ (which have an exposed lead base) will reduce the touching lead, bore friction lead, and base burn lead.
2)When shooting .22, plated bullets is better than plain lead .22.
3)Autoloading and single shot pistols are better than revolvers. Gasses go forward with no cylinder gap to throw gasses to the sides. In the same vein, rifles are better than pistols since the muzzle is a lot further away from the shooter(autoloading rifles may have lead gas blowback to the shooter though).
4)Shoot at a range with good ventilation. Make sure the air is going forward. There are indoor ranges with good blowers which are not pointed correctly and the air swirls around certain firing points. Don't shoot there. Even outdoor ranges can have a light breeze coming from the front sometimes.
5)Wash your hands right after shooting/cleaning guns/reloading. Disposable gloves may be a good idea as well.
6) Minimize exposure to the black primer dust when reloading/decapping. Wear gloves and have a fan behind you? No eating, drinking, and SMOKING while reloading.
7)Don't clean guns or reload in a living area. Garage may be best.

I know I don't follow all of the above, but violate too many of the above and your blood lead levels may rise. Of course reducing or eliminating your shooting/reloading/cleaning of guns are the surest way of reducing exposure, but what fun is that?

[Malmon]

I'm new to this forum, but figure there must be some pretty savvy and experienced individuals here. Does anyone here have expertise in the toxicology of lead? I'm a new shooter and have a young son (10 month old). I sometimes worry about exposing my little guy to "take home lead" and it negatively impacting his health. I asked my kid's pediatrician about this and she seemed surprised that I was concerned. She said that of course I would be exposed to lead at the range, but that my body could probably handle a little lead. I told her that I shoot once per month and that I change my clothes as soon as I get home, have a separate pair of "range shoes" that I leave outside and that I shower and change my clothes as soon as I get home. I also use TMJ ammo (sometimes with lead free primers, when I can find it). She said that I'm taking good precautions but that even without them I'd probably not be able to bring home enough lead to harm my child. I don't know if she is saying this because I shoot only at outdoor ranges or if she doesn't know what she's talking about. She went on to say that of her thousands of patients she can't think of one that tested high for lead, that it is extremely rare these days???? Can she possibly be right? I have read so many horror stories and articles out there that attest to the opposite. I'm skeptical and confused, just don't want to harm my kid. Don't even get me started on the though of cleaning my guns inside of my little apartment with no backyard or garage. I have no idea where I will clean them without risking exposing my kid to lead.

I also have the same concern as you as I have two small ones at home. Like you I take precautions. I change clothes at the garage and wash my hands thoroughly after each shoot. Two years ago we move to a house that is only seven miles from an indoor range. I started shooting twice a week and noticed I am sometimes out of breath and fatigue easily.

Had my lead level checked and it was at 19 (normal was less than 10). I then started wearing n95 masks and my lead level went down to 6 now. I did not change any of my routine except putting on a mask while shooting. People look at me funny but I could care less. In my case the primary cause is inhalation, this is specially risky when shooting at an indoor range when the air circulation is not that great.

[FrankMo]

Anyone who thinks lead is not toxic should sprinkle a spoonful of lead dust on your frosted flakes every morning.

No? Yeah. See?

FrankMo

[hellayella]

You're paranoid

[jeremiah12]

I am a scientist that also grew up in the era of leaded gasoline and lead based paint. I also shot quite a bit as a teen and back then all the bullets were lead, no FMJ. We ate lunch at the range without washing our hands first.

Lead poisoning was not very common then. It was a problem mostly in ghetto areas where children where eating paint chips peeling off the wall and in high density areas from the lead in car exhaust and the build up of environmental lead from leaded gasoline.

So laws were enacted to ban lead in household paints and gasoline (commercial paints and highway paints still contained lead up until very recently. It was the lead in the yellow highway striping paint that was getting into the CA condor when they ate road kill that was poisoning them that helped get the ban on lead ammo passed).

I only shoot at outdoor ranges. I live in the Central Valley and in the summer I drink a lot to stay hydrated so I have my water at the bench with me. For me, a range session lasts 5 to 8 hours.

My lead level is tested once a year and is never higher than 12 and most of the time less than 10. I grew up cleaning guns without gloves, and I still do not use gloves.

BTW, that article the OP linked to was done by a very left leaning and anti-gun newspaper, so of course they will only present one side of the story. I am sure there are inadequately vented indoor gun ranges out there. I am also sure there are more than adequately vented gun ranges out there.

As others have stated, get tested. You will not know if you have a problem until you get tested. Some people shed lead from their bodies faster than others. Two people can be exposed to the same amount of lead and still not end up with the same amount of blood lead levels.

You can be exposed to lead from many other sources than the gun range or shooting and cleaning your guns. So if your lead levels are high, you will need to search for the source.

The precautions you are taking should be good enough to keep your child safe from lead exposure, but the only way you will know for sure is to have him tested. Testing is so much better than sitting around and worrying after reading a few articles published as scare tactics. All of their examples could easily have been exposed to lead at some other place in their daily life and then been pushed over by the lead from shooting.

[anyracoon]

I been shooting for along time. Shotgun, pistol & rifle. Also avid reloader for all. I do smelt and cast bullets so as part of my yearly physical I get tested for lead, which has as yet to be!

[ZombieLivesMatter]

I don't see trolling as others have stated, for shooters with babies this is a good question. OP, when I began shooting I had the same concerns, I have a 2 year old and a 1 month old. After I shoot I make sure I wash my hands well and change clothes before heading home as you stated.