Zeroing

[Angrysnarf]

Im a fast learner

[ja308]

As a side point, recently I attended carbine training and FWIW the statement was made that these carbines/rifles, if you do your job, should bust out a 1-inch dot at 50 yards.

Carbines/rifles are precision and power, the operator just needs to settle in and do his job with the tool that he has.

2moa is a well crafted rifle. 1moa =1" per each 100yds.

As for zero,Ive had to move the target as close as 8 yards because the scope or sights were so far off that it wasnt on paper at any further range. Generally I like to initialy zero at 25 yards which is a 200 yard zero for bullets traveling 2550 -2800 fps.
Faster 223 slugs would be about a 280 yard zero at 25 yards.
Once the initial adlustment is made at 25yds. I verify at further distances and memorise the come ups for each 100 yards.
Actually its written on tape near the rear sight !
I see lots of folks try to zero at 200 -300 yards and their groups look like swiss cheese with holes all over the paper. useless for adjusting sights.
Unless a group developes at any range,its wise to not attemp sight or scope adjustments.

[Josh Smith]

Im a fast learner

Hello,

Do 100 yards. Actually, if you do 200 yards, you'll have a hunting zero at 100 yards out to 300 yards.

You'll need to check your rifle's precision. If the crown is good and the rifling strong, you should get 2.5moa or better with a Mosin-Nagant.

If you start stringing, you have uneven pressure on the barrel or the action.

Shimming the action and providing known pressure points at the front barrel band, top and bottom, while floating the rest of the barrel will go a long way toward accuracy and precision.

Over on Castboolits, one guy just dialed in a load for a Mosin-Nagant, is shooting sub-moa with a scope, and apart from the scope doesn't mention any precision upgrades.

Regards,

Josh

[dieselpower]

So you can teach a novice field positions,standing,sitting,prone within a matter of hours ? Could this novice compete at Camp Perry or score on the army/marine qualification course! (Who cares?)
As a certified rifle instructor,I can tell you that marksmanship requires lots of practice,good training and disipline. (no it doesnt, it does if you make the test require it)
Now if your putting a rifle on a bench or in a vise,sure long range hits are possibile,but not frequent.
Go to Angeles sometime and observe how many times steel targets are hit! Hint rarely by most shooters,even with a concrete bench.

I have been to Angeles, and I see the guys trying to do what you preach and its a hard thing to do. I know its very hard. Thats not the point I am making.

as a combat instructor /weapons instructor, I know you are fooling yourself into thinking your well turned, highly skilled art of marksmanship is the same as simply hitting a target 800 yards away with expensive gear made to make that easier.

Here's the bet
You find me a 16yr old kid, who has never before shot a gun. You provide me a $1000 AR15 from a well known and highly praised manufacturer, and a $1500 scope from again a highly praised company.

In 2 hours I can have that 16 yr old kid hitting 7 outa 10 on a steel gong 800 yards away.

You are fooling yourself if you think I havent done this 100 times. Heck man I have done it in less than 30 minutes. I taught my 12 year old daughter. now please dont freak out and try to say my 12 year old daughter wouldnt survive in a SEAL shoothouse how dare I say that...blah blah blah. Just chil-out man.

I am not saying your art is poop. I am saying its no longer needed for people who want to have fun, fire a gun and hit a target.

I understand you place a lot of value on training and stuff. Some people dont want that, but want that fun in another way.

Why do you think you have the only way to have fun with a firearm? Do you think the only way to have fun with a firearm is to train for 5 years to run a marksmen course at Camp __?

There is a drag strip in Indiana (I think) were anyone can get into a dragster and do 200MPH down a track. Professional Dragster Drivers dont freak out and say thats against the rules, you have to spend 10 years training in go-carts before you can do what I do. They dont freak out and say the dragster isnt real because its near impossible for it to crash. They realize no one is saying their sport isnt real.

Just calm down man. Good gear and a bit of individualized instruction is all that is needed for people to have fun.

[Angrysnarf]

Hello,

Do 100 yards. Actually, if you do 200 yards, you'll have a hunting zero at 100 yards out to 300 yards.

You'll need to check your rifle's precision. If the crown is good and the rifling strong, you should get 2.5moa or better with a Mosin-Nagant.

If you start stringing, you have uneven pressure on the barrel or the action.

Shimming the action and providing known pressure points at the front barrel band, top and bottom, while floating the rest of the barrel will go a long way toward accuracy and precision.

Over on Castboolits, one guy just dialed in a load for a Mosin-Nagant, is shooting sub-moa with a scope, and apart from the scope doesn't mention any precision upgrades.

Regards,

Josh

Thx

This thing is gonna be used for varmint shooting

Coyote's mainly they are an issue around here

[hambam105]

Thanks for proving my point of the art of the rifle being lost.

DiesalPower;

I know of no teenagers and children and YT viewer extraordinaire with just a few hours training successfully engaging targets at extended distances with a rifle of any kind without extensive training.

If your theory is correct, then how do you explain the absence of these under-age marksmen in the current battles in the Middle East? Let's take Saudi Arabia for instance.

A mere five thousand dollars for a rifle is no obstacle for a Saudi Citizen. The country has millions of youngsters on YT on a daily basis. So where are the good rifle shooters hammering 800 yard BG targets for drill and relaxation?

A little closer to home, why does the Marine Corps have recruits on the range for a full two weeks instead of a few hours watching YT? Per man, no organization of any kind handles a M16 better than a Marine. Do they need the entire two weeks to learn how to shoot because they are too old and disconnected from YT?

[mif_slim]

DP and HB, you two are talking about different things. Basically DP is saying, these days its easy to hit 800 with good gear and a bit of training. HB is basically saying you need training to consistently hit 800. Both true but throw enough round down range and one will hit its mark. My son is 7, he shot since he was about 4. When he was 5 he was able to hit shotgun hulls at 25 yards, hit a 7" gong at 100 and even hit 7" gong at 200 with irons. All i did was teach him the 4 rules, hold his breath (i hold mines and know lots who exhale.. i tried it but its not for me) place front post on target and slowly squeeze. After a few shots, he got the concept and started hitting clays and all... took less than 30 mins (granted i have him memorize the 4 rules at home everyday since he began to talk and play with toy guns). Now, will he win NRA Long Range at Camp Perry? No, but he had fun shooting shotgun hulls and hitting it.

[ja308]

DP No aurgument about teaching nearly anyone to hit a target at long range with a shooting bench,sandbags,bipods,scope and low recoil rifle. After someone familiar with the rifle has put the sights on target and zeroed it beforehand.

Lets hope that person enjoys the experiance enough to join the NRA,the Republican party and become proficiant with learning the principles of rifle marksmanship,which include learning the basics,IMO.

[glockman19]

My 30 caliber rifles including my hunting rifle a 165 grain .30-06 is zeroed at 25 yards...and 255 yards. I'm High 2.75" at 100 yards, 2.5" high at 200 yards...I'm low by 1.25" at 275 yards.

My cross hairs are always in the kill zone within 275 yards

My .223/5.56 rifles are also zeroed at 25 yards...and about 260 yards. I'm high 3.1" at 100 yards, High 3.16" at 200 yards, and high 3.14" at 300 yards.

The only rifles I zero at 100 yards are my .22lr rifles, 1.3" high at 25 yards, 2.57 high at 50 yards, 2.18" high a 75 yards, Zero at 100 yards, LOW 4" at 125 yards.