Interesting concept

[wbunning]

Will the DOJ determine that stripper clips are magazines? If not, how about a modified magazine well that has a bottom door, push in a stripper clip with it's own spring, close the door under it?

[tonyxcom]

The DOJ has already said that stripper clips aren't any form of ammunition feeding device.

[DarkKing]

Will the DOJ determine that stripper clips are magazines? If not, how about a modified magazine well that has a bottom door, push in a stripper clip with it's own spring, close the door under it?

May be possible if standard AR-15 magazines were not double stacked.

I can see this working for 5 maybe 6 rounds.


Stripper clips only made sense for loading top down because when you feed them in the round automatically wants to fit in and will there for stack properly so you get the full capacity.



IDK if it can be done but if i come across a spare magazine or get sent one i can try it one day on my AG-1 rifle <.<

[Cheezle56]

Instead of EFFing with a gas tube.... what about just simply use a short stroke piston upper? FN FAL, SKS, SVT... FN49... just to name a few...

[wbunning]

May be possible if standard AR-15 magazines were not double stacked.

I can see this working for 5 maybe 6 rounds.


Stripper clips only made sense for loading top down because when you feed them in the round automatically wants to fit in and will there for stack properly so you get the full capacity.



IDK if it can be done but if i come across a spare magazine or get sent one i can try it one day on my AG-1 rifle <.<

Gotta love the end-around play. Thanks for working it, Amigo!

[DarkKing]

Instead of EFFing with a gas tube.... what about just simply use a short stroke piston upper? FN FAL, SKS, SVT... FN49... just to name a few...

I don't have experience with it and don't have the parts for it. I would have to either be sent them or be well versed in my method. In order for me to just order parts I am not fully comfortable with.

If I do your idea I can't just mess up. Gas tubes are cheap IDK about the piston ones but I'll look into it but don't expect me to be making one anytime soon unless I'm sent parts.

So for now let me hash out my idea. Get pics to the people and then we will talk about other ideas.

Thanks or the idea though I'm going to keep tabs on it.

[saki302]

Sounds like the early post 2K FAL fix.

Fix the mag with an internal rod (not removable). Install stripper clip dust cover and top load.

-Dave

[saki302]

Sounds like the early post 2K FAL fix.

Fix the mag with an internal rod (not removable). Install stripper clip dust cover and top load.

-Dave

[Cheezle56]

I don't have experience with it and don't have the parts for it. I would have to either be sent them or be well versed in my method. In order for me to just order parts I am not fully comfortable with.

If I do your idea I can't just mess up. Gas tubes are cheap IDK about the piston ones but I'll look into it but don't expect me to be making one anytime soon unless I'm sent parts.

So for now let me hash out my idea. Get pics to the people and then we will talk about other ideas.

Thanks or the idea though I'm going to keep tabs on it.

Gas tubes may be cheap, but the short stroke piston with stripper clip loading is proven. Go look up those gun designs.
In reality, its always more difficult to adapt existing parts than to just simply build it the way you want it from the ground up.
Also a Y shaped gas tube.... how are you going to fit that in am existing upper? I would require a custom upper to clear it... by that point, instead of trying to innovate an idea that may not work well, it would be just be easier to take existing principles from rifles that came before and build from the ground up...
Do you also realise there are 4 bearing surfaces on an AR-15 bolt carrier ? By opeming up the top of the upper, you compromise 2 of the bearing surfaces on the top of the carrier next to the gas key.. most pistion upper bolts also have the same 4 bearing surfaces....
Ultimately, to allow of a top loading openiing via stripper clip al la M14, SKS, FAL, etc. You'll need an opening large enough to acccomodate. By cutting a hole big enough to accomodate, you'll cut parts of the upper that the bearing surfaces of the BCG rides on... compromise too much, And the BCG will not align properly causing malfunctions... im sure I recall the width of a 556 round is as wide as the width between the upper bearing surfaces amd longer too... meaning the BCG can ride up causing it to fail to cycle, or ride up a5md fail to strip the next round or not like up with the barrrel extension properly and go into battery... the best suggestion woule be to design a short stroke pistion upper where the BCG rides on its own rails so the loading port would not interfere... its going to be an engineering challenge for sure... like the guy who suggusted about the feasability of a 5.56 P90... only to realise, 5.56 rounds have a very slight taper...

If youre serious, look into the design of the FN FAL with stripper clip cover, and the SKS (and note uncanny similarity of mechanical design between the two rifles)
Maybe the AG-42 Lungman for variations on direct impingement, and various versions of stripper clip feeds amd take note most nearly all have large openings to allow for ones fingers to reach into the reciever... reason why I dont advocate using a polymer "pusher" to load from stripper clips is because its fairly common to not have all the rounds want to line up and go into the magazines that you may have to manually manipulate the offending cartridge to go in.

[DarkKing]

Gas tubes may be cheap, but the short stroke piston with stripper clip loading is proven. Go look up those gun designs.
In reality, its always more difficult to adapt existing parts than to just simply build it the way you want it from the ground up.
Also a Y shaped gas tube.... how are you going to fit that in am existing upper? I would require a custom upper to clear it... by that point, instead of trying to innovate an idea that may not work well, it would be just be easier to take existing principles from rifles that came before and build from the ground up...
Do you also realise there are 4 bearing surfaces on an AR-15 bolt carrier ? By opeming up the top of the upper, you compromise 2 of the bearing surfaces on the top of the carrier next to the gas key.. most pistion upper bolts also have the same 4 bearing surfaces....
Ultimately, to allow of a top loading openiing via stripper clip al la M14, SKS, FAL, etc. You'll need an opening large enough to acccomodate. By cutting a hole big enough to accomodate, you'll cut parts of the upper that the bearing surfaces of the BCG rides on... compromise too much, And the BCG will not align properly causing malfunctions... im sure I recall the width of a 556 round is as wide as the width between the upper bearing surfaces amd longer too... meaning the BCG can ride up causing it to fail to cycle, or ride up a5md fail to strip the next round or not like up with the barrrel extension properly and go into battery... the best suggestion woule be to design a short stroke pistion upper where the BCG rides on its own rails so the loading port would not interfere... its going to be an engineering challenge for sure... like the guy who suggusted about the feasability of a 5.56 P90... only to realise, 5.56 rounds have a very slight taper...

If youre serious, look into the design of the FN FAL with stripper clip cover, and the SKS (and note uncanny similarity of mechanical design between the two rifles)
Maybe the AG-42 Lungman for variations on direct impingement, and various versions of stripper clip feeds amd take note most nearly all have large openings to allow for ones fingers to reach into the reciever... reason why I dont advocate using a polymer "pusher" to load from stripper clips is because its fairly common to not have all the rounds want to line up and go into the magazines that you may have to manually manipulate the offending cartridge to go in.

None of the guides are impeded.

When you go into the cut you notice a .223/5.56 round has lots to play in the lateral axis. Essentially remove your BCG and handle and then put a round in the center.

notice how much play there is? notice how the slots line up with the rails on the top? as long as you don't cut to the edges you leave the rails intact.

As long as you leave the rails intact you also are able to identify a flush surface on the inside-top of the receiver. While I understand your concerns of the key catching I almost don't see the point in them. On my Upper receiver of both of my receivers there is rails/guides that contain the handle and the BCG key is guided by the grooves on the bottom of the handle.

IN theory as long as the rails are intact the BCG should be totally fine. Which is true in this case. I can still pull the handle and i is extracting snap caps/dummy rounds just fine.


The reason i am so against the piston idea for now is its not something I am familiar with, don't have the parts and I want to see if i can get the idea to work before making new parts left and right. This way once I get a better idea of how this is going to work and see if i can get it to work reliably. After I figure all of that out then i can see about switching to a piston which i do understand would be easier.

I don't have the parts on hand. I am going to work with what I have now to make sure the concept will at least work reliably.

[Cheezle56]

None of the guides are impeded.

When you go into the cut you notice a .223/5.56 round has lots to play in the lateral axis. Essentially remove your BCG and handle and then put a round in the center.

notice how much play there is? notice how the slots line up with the rails on the top? as long as you don't cut to the edges you leave the rails intact.

As long as you leave the rails intact you also are able to identify a flush surface on the inside-top of the receiver. While I understand your concerns of the key catching I almost don't see the point in them. On my Upper receiver of both of my receivers there is rails/guides that contain the handle and the BCG key is guided by the grooves on the bottom of the handle.

IN theory as long as the rails are intact the BCG should be totally fine. Which is true in this case. I can still pull the handle and i is extracting snap caps/dummy rounds just fine.


The reason i am so against the piston idea for now is its not something I am familiar with, don't have the parts and I want to see if i can get the idea to work before making new parts left and right. This way once I get a better idea of how this is going to work and see if i can get it to work reliably. After I figure all of that out then i can see about switching to a piston which i do understand would be easier.

I don't have the parts on hand. I am going to work with what I have now to make sure the concept will at least work reliably.

Do you have pictures of your modified upper?

[Cheezle56]

And the charging handle does not form part of the reciever that guides the BCG.

[Cheezle56]

Also, instead of a Y shaped gas tube... you dont need the manufacturing complexity of a Y- shaped gas tube. Just simply put an S-bend and have the gas tube go along the left side of the reciever....
Remove the old gas key, seal the hole in the top of the Bolt carrier body, cut off the "tube" part of the old gas key and bolt back in place... you need the gas key stub for the CH to work... now your gas tune runs along the left side of the rifle, drill a new gas port on the left side of the carrier, and tap the screw holes, so the new gas key mates with the gas tube along the left side of the reciever. On the upper reciever, cut a slot like a side charging handle slot for the left side gas key to clear... you can either cut the slot all the way to the end to make disassembly easier but weaken the upper, or you can cut a slot long enough for the gas key to clear, and simply require an allen key to remove the gas key every time you want to remove the BCG. By relocating the gas key, and gas tube to the 9 O-clock position, you eliminate the issue of trying to to figure out how to clear the gas tune with stripper clips. Most freefloat handguards should still work with a 9 O-clock gas tube... now for the bearing surfaces inside the upper, i recall the 5.56 round is either bigger than or very close the the width of the distance between the two upper bearing surfaces, and the charging handles does not guid the BCG, the charging handles only job is to pull the BCG back.

[Cheezle56]

Actually... the gas key does not extend past the top of the bolt... then you donlt eveb have to cut off the tune part of the gas key, just simply seal the hole in the top of the bolt carrier and install a 9 O-clock gas key...

[laurelpark]

Instead of EFFing with a gas tube.... what about just simply use a short stroke piston upper? FN FAL, SKS, SVT... FN49... just to name a few...

^^^This exactly. I've experimented with Sig R556 and R716 guns, and when you pop the rear take down pin, the whole upper rotates forward and exposes an unobstructed magazine. You can load with a slightly modified spoon and stripper clip, or just pop the rounds in by hand. Not quite as fast as swapping pre-loaded magazines with a BB, but it's really not that inconvenient at all.

No limitations on optics, either - the whole rail rotates with the upper.