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[mike415stone]

If he's wearing a Cubs jersey, you know what you have to do...

Take odds that the Cubs will screw the pooch once again

[user120312]

IMO, wherever possible, communicate to de-escalate. Otherwise, follow your LCH training.

I live rural and have fences and gates and my first move is to request reason for existence in my space. I remember one incident long ago when, in the dark, I noted two individuals up by the house and couldn't clearly see them, so approached them by stealth. Turned out they were two deputies sent to check on my welfare because dumb azz me left the phone off the hook and my mom called the sheriff after getting a busy signal all day

If a person ignores the fence and the sign, still attempt to communicate and de-escalate. Always offer all parties the opportunity to disengage. If they persist, then engage with no other intent than erasing their existence, fully cognizant that you will be arrested and sued.

[SoCalPI]

Oh man, not this again..

http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=1198232

[bohoki]

i never understood the imbalance in the treaspassing laws i mean you go over the railing on the golden gate bridge they arrest you for treaspassing but at your house you have to put up signage and have to tell them to leave and often the police will show up and tell them to leave

[odysseus]

I have read here that your front yard is still consider public because public has access to it.

No not really; quasi-public is probably a better term. Meaning when it is left open grounds, there is a presumption that you are allowing access to it, like going to your front door and knocking, getting service by utility people, mail, etc. Yes if you border it off reasonably with a fence, you are deliberately at that point not making it accessible, and thus anyone climbing over it has more trouble saying they didn't think there was any problem being there.

[sfe187]

good input lot of you. fence is 4.5 feet.

if he does not comply to show his hands and i retreat, what happens if he shoots? one of my point is how can i let him have the ability to engage first? anyone who has that ability could mean life or death. hence i used the phrase kill or be kill. they security guard at malibu, he shot the intruder after a knife struggle which the guard was stabbed in the lower eye, then he fire 4 times. why wait to get to that point? if the intruder is coming with a knife, as soon as i see that knife charging, i will be sure to use force and not wait till he attacks me.

was there a while ago where the elderly home owner shot burglars in the back after chasing them into his back alley and no charges were filed?

the problem is i don't know his motives. mind you he already hopped a fence onto private property, then refuse to comply with my commands to see his hands, what ways can i de-escalate from there without knowing if he also has a gun ready to engage.

Yeah its one of those split second decisions. i mean unless we are talking about a hard core solicitor or someone who wants to convert me to their religion that bad by hoping over a private fence, i just don't see any reasonable person would want to hop onto someone else's property. and they people that would is the ones that really scares me.

[essjay]

If he's wearing a Dodgers jersey, you know what you have to do...

FTFY

[sfe187]

Oh man, not this again..

http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/s....php?t=1198232

in that case, the homeowner said he didn't have any hesitation and also the intruder complied.

what happened if he didn't comply? thats what opinion i was looking for what to do if in a face to face situation and he refuse to comply.

[joepamjohn]

Yeah this is stupid. Why on gods green earth would you want to take someone's life's because they come onto your yard? Do you realize that the gun you have your hand on will end someone's life, ruin a families life, and more then likely cost you a massive amount of money in legal bills? What about your life and family? In my opinion, you shouldn't own a gun if you're asking a question like this.

+1 this!!!! ^ Can't believe the things I read here sometimes.

[Den60]

good input lot of you. fence is 4.5 feet.

if he does not comply to show his hands and i retreat, what happens if he shoots? one of my point is how can i let him have the ability to engage first? anyone who has that ability could mean life or death. hence i used the phrase kill or be kill. they security guard at malibu, he shot the intruder after a knife struggle which the guard was stabbed in the lower eye, then he fire 4 times. why wait to get to that point? if the intruder is coming with a knife, as soon as i see that knife charging, i will be sure to use force and not wait till he attacks me.

was there a while ago where the elderly home owner shot burglars in the back after chasing them into his back alley and no charges were filed?

the problem is i don't know his motives. mind you he already hopped a fence onto private property, then refuse to comply with my commands to see his hands, what ways can i de-escalate from there without knowing if he also has a gun ready to engage.

Yeah its one of those split second decisions. i mean unless we are talking about a hard core solicitor or someone who wants to convert me to their religion that bad by hoping over a private fence, i just don't see any reasonable person would want to hop onto someone else's property. and they people that would is the ones that really scares me.

OK, you have a guy with his hand in a pocket in your front yard. Rather than call the police you go out to confront him, armed and with your hand on your holstered firearm. The guy refuses to take his hand out of your pocket and starts to be confrontational and takes a step towards you and says "What are you gonna do, shoot me?" That isn't far fetched, people do that with police officers all the time. Now what? Do you draw your weapon? If you do are you prepared to shoot him? Will you shoot him? You have left yourself with the only option to escalate the situation if they guy doesn't do what you hope he will do. If you shoot him you have to hope he had a gun in his pocket to have any chance of a defense because you had the option in the first place to retreat inside your home and call police. Even if he leaves you may end up with the police coming around to investigate why you brandished a weapon. But, lets say you end up shooting him. You are now looking at criminal prosecution which could likely lead to conviction (more likely if the guy didn't have a firearm). At the very least you will be dealing with a civil lawsuit. Either way you are going to be spending a lot of time and money over the next couple of years defending your decision and your life will be put into the hands of 12 people too stupid to get off of jury duty.

[TacticalThug]

Op, one day at about 1 - 2 am someone ran into my yard, past the property gate and slammed my side gate HARD and hoped it then ran up my back stairs stomping loud and banged on the back door. By then I had my LCR aimed at the door as he slammed on it knocking banging, my heart was beating fast and I looked out the window next to the door, thank god I didn't kill my drunk friend that night, he had just got beat up and came to my house that was safe. Just because someone jumps your fence doesn't mean they mean harm, it could always be someone running away from someone.

[LBDamned]

I have read here that your front yard is still consider public because public has access to it.

Say I put up a fence (usually not that high allowed) covering my front yard and to both left and right neighbors sides. The fence has a locked front entrance and also locked sliding for cars to get in and out. There are also multiple signage says No Soliciting No Trespassing/Private Property.

My questions is because the fence is not that high due to city laws, and someone cross or hop over the fence, can i automatically assume its an intruder and into full defense mode? Defense mode meaning have my hand over pistol in holster ready to come out.

Isn't this situation is already after de-escate since this person choose to ignore signage and still hops over, i have no idea what this person want or motive.

Its inside my fenced private property so i would think i have the right to protect my family and deal with the unknown in the above described manner.

What would you do in that situation?

Op, one day at about 1 - 2 am someone ran into my yard, past the property gate and slammed my side gate HARD and hoped it then ran up my back stairs stomping loud and banged on the back door. By then I had my LCR aimed at the door as he slammed on it knocking banging, my heart was beating fast and I looked out the window next to the door, thank god I didn't kill my drunk friend that night, he had just got beat up and came to my house that was safe. Just because someone jumps your fence doesn't mean they mean harm, it could always be someone running away from someone.

So... You're telling OP to draw his weapon and point in the direction of the unknown trespasser? Or are you saying you did it entirely wrong?

I think people are still failing to read the part where he said he'd have his hand over his weapon (he never mentioned drawing it). IMO the OP has a better idea of what to do than you did.

[TacticalThug]

Naw I did get that part, all I'm saying is don't jump to conclusions just because someone jumped into your yard. But yes under the circumstances he wrote he wouldn't be too far off to just hover his hand over his gun.

[sfe187]

OK, you have a guy with his hand in a pocket in your front yard. Rather than call the police you go out to confront him, armed and with your hand on your holstered firearm. The guy refuses to take his hand out of your pocket and starts to be confrontational and takes a step towards you and says "What are you gonna do, shoot me?" That isn't far fetched, people do that with police officers all the time. Now what? Do you draw your weapon? If you do are you prepared to shoot him? Will you shoot him? You have left yourself with the only option to escalate the situation if they guy doesn't do what you hope he will do. If you shoot him you have to hope he had a gun in his pocket to have any chance of a defense because you had the option in the first place to retreat inside your home and call police. Even if he leaves you may end up with the police coming around to investigate why you brandished a weapon. But, lets say you end up shooting him. You are now looking at criminal prosecution which could likely lead to conviction (more likely if the guy didn't have a firearm). At the very least you will be dealing with a civil lawsuit. Either way you are going to be spending a lot of time and money over the next couple of years defending your decision and your life will be put into the hands of 12 people too stupid to get off of jury duty.

thanks for the input.

1. if i was alone in the house and saw an intruder, yes i would call PD first. however it might not be like that sometimes, what happens if my daughter is playing in the side or the back yard or even in the front yard at the time?

2. in regards to engagement, my point is when during a face to face confrontation with an intruder and after i repeatedly asked to see his hands and he DOES NOT comply, what am I suppose to do then? as said, i have to watch his hands carefully and expecting the worst.

a lot of you think i'm walking out of my house with the gun out ready to kill but its further from that.

i'll write again . . .

1. intruder jumps fence onto private property
2. i come out to ask "can i help you sir" and "can i see your hands for safety"
3. at the same time i have my hand on the holster
4. what happens if he DOES NOT COMPLY to my commands REPEATEDLY and i can't see his hands.
5. what am i supposed to do next?????

my opinion is at that point i have no choice to expect the worst. worst meaning he might have a weapon and could possibly use on me.

i'm seeking input on #5 above ^^

[LBDamned]

Naw I did get that part, all I'm saying is don't jump to conclusions just because someone jumped into your yard. But yes under the circumstances he wrote he wouldn't be too far off to just hover his hand over his gun.

The original post had nothing that indicated conclusions were jumped to.