How would Dry Fire groups translate to Live Fire?

[rodralig]

As mentioned in the Introduction thread, newbie/beginner shooter here...

Well, finally got my FSC! Yehey! And purchased the G22 (yeah - wanted the P229 Legion, but it's still illegal in CA) - waiting for delivery by 5-May! Woo hoo!

Anyways, I took delivery of NextLevel Training's SiRT pistol a few days earlier...

Well, since the SiRT is modeled after the G17/G22 (I got the one with the metal slide - approximating the weight of the real gun), started "playing" with a couple Dry Fire drills.

That said - one drill I setup was a 18" x 12" silhouette target with a 3" diameter bulls eye at 15-yards.

I managed the "green" dot within a 3-inch space. And recording the shots using a digital camera, it is very obvious that I need to work on TRIGGER CONTROL. Hahaha!

Anyways, since there is NO RECOIL here - I'm quite *curious* how would a 3" group WITHOUT recoil translate to LIVE fire? A shooter colleague of mine tells me that I wil definitely hit most of center mass; but will most probably NOT hit the center 3" bulls eye. But of course, interested in what others think? (I have a video uploaded to FB)

How would Dry Fire groups translate to Live Fire?

Also, what is an average group for a pistol at 15-yards?

Thank you to everyone's insights!!


PS: There were two others who took the FSC with me... One got a 20/30!?! Dang! The FSC, except for a couple of items, are COMMON SENSE. For someone to get 10 incorrect answers is really FRIGHTENING! Another actually asked the DOJ-certified instructor to "reword" some questions. *ugh*

[micro911]

If you are good with dry fire, you should be good in live fire. Only problem is if you start anticipating for the recoil. If you shoot live fire just like dry fire, you will hit the bullseye every time.

[1911su16b870]

If you are good with dry fire, you should be good in live fire. Only problem is if you start anticipating for the recoil. If you shoot live fire just like dry fire, you will hit the bullseye every time.

^ Yes +1

[tanks]

Recoil control matters only on how fast you see what you need to see in your sights. So, in slow fire it would not matter at all if you repeat what you do in dry fire (assuming your dry fire is correct).

[NapalmCheese]

With live fire you get tired more quickly, you lose concentration more quickly, and the general environment is not as conducive to shooting well (i.e. slightly stressed because OMG guns, other people shooting, too hot, too cold, don't like being watched, no candles, lack of healing crystals on the wall to absorb bad karma, etc.).

As such, you likely won't shoot as well as you think you should nor for as long as you think you should when shooting live ammunition.

[rodralig]

Recoil control matters only on how fast you see what you need to see in your sights. So, in slow fire it would not matter at all if you repeat what you do in dry fire (assuming your dry fire is correct).

*nod* Good to know. Thanks!

With live fire you get tired more quickly, you lose concentration more quickly, and the general environment is not as conducive to shooting well (i.e. slightly stressed because OMG guns, other people shooting, too hot, too cold, don't like being watched, no candles, lack of healing crystals on the wall to absorb bad karma, etc.).

As such, you likely won't shoot as well as you think you should nor for as long as you think you should when shooting live ammunition.

Makes sense... Can't wait to get my gun and start trying out the local indoor range. In the meantime, just work on my dry fire - stance, finger control, "relaxed arms" (yeah! I find that having a more relaxed arm makes for LESS wobble) and breathing (I find myself holding my breath throughout the entire slow fire. *ugh*).

[Foebia]

Buy a basic handgun class , they are fun and you will learn more than you think. Never had a class that was a waste

[Snoopy47]

http://www.saveourguns.com/Ar_Marks_Un_Pistol_Train_Guide.pdf

Read the above cover to cover.

[Snoopy47]

Anyways, since there is NO RECOIL here - I'm quite *curious* how would a 3" group WITHOUT recoil translate to LIVE fire?

When you start to notice a bad shot when dry firing your shooting will improve astronomically.

It's easiest done with a red dot or laser sight. Plant the dot on your target, and pull the trigger. When the hammer falls and goes click, and there is dead on zero movement of the red dot then you will start to be onto something.

The same goes for iron sights, but it's not as noticeable. You really have to be focused on that front sight, and then be able to notice any slight movement.

Eventually you get to a point where you know you missed your target even without looking at it.

[Midtown]

May I ask how you came to the decision to get a .40 cal as your first gun? I don't have a lot of experience with it but I find the recoil to be very snappy especially in a lightweight polymer gun...

[Snoopy47]

PS: There were two others who took the FSC with me... One got a 20/30!?! Dang! The FSC, except for a couple of items, are COMMON SENSE. For someone to get 10 incorrect answers is really FRIGHTENING! Another actually asked the DOJ-certified instructor to "reword" some questions. *ugh*

Eh.............. That's how the world works. Such tests as common denominator as they are still have people fail.

Many moons ago, when I took my drivers test for a motorcycle the guy that took it before me used a GOLDWING, and proceeded to knock over every other orange cone, and fail miserably, verses me who used a little 440cc.

[rodralig]

Buy a basic handgun class , they are fun and you will learn more than you think. Never had a class that was a waste

Yes - already had a Basic Handgun class. I was hence told to practice (dry fire + live fire), then come back again for the same or the next higher class.

http://www.saveourguns.com/Ar_Marks_...rain_Guide.pdf

Read the above cover to cover.

Nice! Thank you very much!

When you start to notice a bad shot when dry firing your shooting will improve astronomically.

It's easiest done with a red dot or laser sight. Plant the dot on your target, and pull the trigger. When the hammer falls and goes click, and there is dead on zero movement of the red dot then you will start to be onto something.

Using the SiRT (modeled after the G17/G22) - I find that I get a solid GREEN dot (from the laser) at short yardage. Once I hit the 15-yard range, I find movements of the laser to within 3". I'm going to be experimenting with finger placement (have heard that this seems to be a contentious topic)

May I ask how you came to the decision to get a .40 cal as your first gun? I don't have a lot of experience with it but I find the recoil to be very snappy especially in a lightweight polymer gun...

Actually, haven't tried a 40 with a Polymer gun YET; only with Steel (the Sig P229) - which I loved! However, due to $$$ constraints, opted to get the G22 instead of the standard P229 (wanted the Legion, but it seems not in the Roster *dang*). Scheduled delivery by 5-May.

Someone else asked me the same question: http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/s...postcount=4779

Thank you!!!

Sorry for not replying any sooner - I seemingly didn't set my Notification Type...

Well, when I took the Basic Handgun course, the only pistols were 38 revolvers. I dunno - but had a personal preference for semi-automatics, and so (doesn't hurt to ask), asked the instructor if he had anything else... Luckily, he responded that he has a P229 in 40!

Tried it - and actually loved it! Hence, why not make it my first gun and learn from it..! (I'm definitely sure that it MAY not be my last)

PS: Actually, just got my FSC over the weekend, and already ordered the G22. Delivery will be on 5-May!

[MrOrange]

Yeah, what Snoopy47 said!

Sounds like you've heard it already, but I truly believe that dry-firing is invaluable to skill development. When you can start reliably calling your shots in live fire, you're well on your way. Dry firing is also a good way to settle down and help ease the effects of bounce and blast after a live fire session, while still at the range.

As for the 15 yard group size thing, for a beginner I'll say you should be able to cover your group with your hand. Most of the group, anyway. Okay, you can spread your fingers out.

I wouldn't worry too much re: the plastic .40, it is the most popular police sidearm out there, and few police these days have had much handgun shooting experience before joining up.

[Eljay]

There are differences. If you develop a flinch (start anticipating the shot) that'll typically only show up in live fire and you'll start dropping rounds low. If your grip is inconsistent and it rises different amounts as the bullet's leaving the barrel you'll get some vertical spread. Be sure in dry fire to grip the gun just like you would in live fire to get used to that grip even though you know it's not going to recoil.

I always feel like most of the learning happens in dry fire and the live fire just keeps you honest.

[russ69]

...Also, what is an average group for a pistol at 15-yards?...

I shoot 1 inch groups with my Contender at 100 yards...but lets not get ahead of ourselves. A 15 yard group should be pretty small and have a good round shape. Concentrate on nice round groups first then you can work on reducing it's size.