Gun Advocates making it hard for responsible gun owners

[Newbshooter]

It drives me crazy when I hear about people who let their kids get access to their guns. This lady does more harm for gun rights than any liberal politician.

http://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/jamie-gilt-florida-mom-accidentally-shot-4-year-old-son-n534981

[Soginator]

Who leaves a loaded pistol where a 4 year old can get it?!

[this_copy]

Perfect example of why we all need to "think" before we post on CG. It won't be long before the media discovers we are posting on here and those posts will begin showing up in articles such as this. Think of how easy it would be for them search the forums once they know they exist. This lady got shot and their first reaction is to search for her on Facebook....

[SkyHawk]

Dupe

http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=1174379

[SamsDX]

Perfect example of why we all need to "think" before we post on CG. It won't be long before the media discovers we are posting on here and those posts will begin showing up in articles such as this. Think of how easy it would be for them search the forums once they know they exist. This lady got shot and their first reaction is to search for her on Facebook....

Burying our collective head in the sand and pretending this didn't happen isn't the proper reaction to this unfortunate incident. Bottom line, her son never should have been able to access the firearm in the back of the truck, and it shows how she got complacent, and/or did not give the firearm the respect that it deserves (to say nothing of the respect for the firearm she should have taught her son - whatever happened to stop/don't touch/run away/tell an adult?).

Guns are serious business, and any incident where someone gets unintentionally injured needs to be analyzed and discussed extensively to make sure we and others don't repeat the same mistake. This is the responsible way to handle a mishap, and I don't think it detracts from our cause. If anything, it will prove that responsible gun owners recognize an error when it happens, and will take appropriate corrective measures.

eta: When that guy in Texas shot himself drawing from a SERPA holster and he openly admitted his mistake, it didn't have much of an effect in the gun control dialogue. I don't recall it being mentioned at any significant length in the national media.

[this_copy]

Burying our collective head in the sand and pretending this didn't happen isn't the proper reaction to this unfortunate incident. Bottom line, her son never should have been able to access the firearm in the back of the truck, and it shows how she got complacent, and/or did not give the firearm the respect that it deserves (to say nothing of the respect for the firearm she should have taught her son - whatever happened to stop/don't touch/run away/tell an adult?).

Guns are serious business, and any incident where someone gets unintentionally injured needs to be analyzed and discussed extensively to make sure we and others don't repeat the same mistake. This is the responsible way to handle a mishap, and I don't think it detracts from our cause. If anything, it will prove that responsible gun owners recognize an error when it happens, and will take appropriate corrective measures.

eta: When that guy in Texas shot himself drawing from a SERPA holster and he openly admitted his mistake, it didn't have much of an effect in the gun control dialogue. I don't recall it being mentioned at any significant length in the national media.

What?! It never surprises me how one person can read something and see something totally different than another. Maybe I should have been more clear. An example:

In a post on CG, you may share your opinion of a political figure and what you feel should be done to said political figure. Maybe someday you're at the range and channel 7 shows up to interview "Law Abiding Gun Owners". However, at the end of your 10 second interview is the screen grab of your CG Forum Post stating what you think should be done to the political figure.

Just a thought....

[SamsDX]

What?! It never surprises me how one person can read something and see something totally different than another. Maybe I should have been more clear.

I thought you were referring to OP and subsequent posts saying how much of an idiot this lady was, and how we shouldn't call her out on Calguns.

Now I see you were referring to this lady's Facebook posts about Second Amendment rights - I apologize for my misunderstanding.

With that said, I agree with your general sentiment - we should be careful with what we post here, no doubt. But perhaps the more important lesson here is, Safety (and basics) First, especially if you're being vocal about gun rights and you're exposing yourself more to the public.

[this_copy]

I thought you were referring to OP and subsequent posts saying how much of an idiot this lady was, and how we shouldn't call her out on Calguns.

Now I see you were referring to this lady's Facebook posts about Second Amendment rights - I apologize for my misunderstanding.

With that said, I agree with your general sentiment - we should be careful with what we post here, no doubt. But perhaps the more important lesson here is, Safety (and basics) First, especially if you're being vocal about gun rights and you're exposing yourself more to the public.

No worries. After re-reading my post I see how it was not totally clear. Made sense in my head.

[stix213]

Sigh..... Incidents like this are where locked/unloaded transportation laws come from, and make them much harder to fight against. It's one thing when an irresponsible gang banger gets shot by his own gun, it's laughed at and there's a serves him right attitude. But when someone law abiding who opening speaks about there is no need for more gun laws gets shot by her own child, it helps to validate the anti gun argument.

What most of us here want is gun owners to be allowed to make their own responsible choices for their safety and situation. But for that to work people need to actually make those responsible decisions or people in the middle will see more restrictions as perfectly reasonable. The OP is completely right.

[Carcassonne]

eta: When that guy in Texas shot himself drawing from a SERPA holster and he openly admitted his mistake, it didn't have much of an effect in the gun control dialogue. I don't recall it being mentioned at any significant length in the national media.

That guy was not from Texas, but he does call himself Tex Grebner.

[dwalker]

It would be great if all gun owners would stand beside all other gun owners, but unfortunately we have some folks around that think thier feces is without odor.

Accidents happen, even to the most careful of folks. So I believe what happened in this instance was a careless slip up? Yeah, I do. My guess is she left her 1911 in condition 1 in a range bag in the back seat of the truck, not thinking the kid would pull it out and play with it. He did and so she lost a pound of flesh. Maybe a half pound... I dunno
What I do know is accidents happen, and the very first thing that happens is a bunch of holier than thou, "should done this or its stupid because of that" commentary follows, 90% of which is hogwash. Ever seen a guy shoot himself drawing a gun? I have. Just recently it happened at least twice in the "controlled environment" of a private range.
Didya see that guy get shot while teaching the little girl to shoot an Uzi on FA?
I watched my youngest brother shoot himself in the hand with a 9mm pistol (my pistol as it happens) while he was learning to clean and reassemble it. Winchester Silvertip went right through the meaty part of his hand.
Accidents happen, and of course they are ALL preventable IF you follow "the rules".

The problem with all the handwringing and "we need to evaluate these instances to prevent them in the future" bluster is (SHOCKER!) there are already ways all of these things can be prevented. Just like ALL automobile accidents can be prevented, and we know HOW they can be prevented. Can anyone here recommend a "new" solution that would have prevented this accident?
Maybe better education for the kid? After all it is obvious to me he had NOT been taught that guns are in fact dangerous and to NOT point one at anyone, ever, and to NEVER handle one without permission. SO nothing new about this..
How about the gun being locked away? Oh wait, we dont know that it was not actually secured in a range bag? And again, nothing new about this, and it very likely was "secured".
In fact, we do not know that the kid did not pull the pistol out of her range bag, find a loaded mag, insert it, and rack the slide in imitation of what he had seen Mom do hundreds of times. Again, there are already rules and methods of prevention, that were not adhered to in this case. Even if it were a law there is nothing it would have done to prevent this.
So the typical answer is to lock the firearm away then? Well thats a great idea, but a kid that can manipulate a trigger can also manipulate zippers and locks, and AGAIN, this is already common knowledge, nothing new about securing your firearms.

My point is we, as gun owners, should feel sympathy for this woman, getting shot sucks. So many IMMEDIATELY ASSume that the gun was unsecued, like in your head she just through it in the back seat, put the kid in his booster seat, and drove off.
One possibility that has not been mentioned that should be, is if she had the gun in a holster or tucked into the seat and it either fell out and the kid picked it up and it discharged, or the kid reached forward playing with Mommy and managed to trigger the gun in its holster, exactly what ounce of prevention would you think was overlooked?
I personally feel sorry for this lady, getting shot sucks (as I mentioned) and the fear that kid has now experienced is going to be a rough one to get over. And of course, immediately here on Calguns she is lambasted as an idiot..

Stick together, or be torn apart...

[tanks]

...
Accidents happen, even to the most careful of folks. ...

Actually they don't. Negligent Discharges happen. People become complacent.

[dwalker]

Actually they don't. Negligent Discharges happen. People become complacent.

Not sure a 4-year old can be negligent...

[SamsDX]

... but unfortunately we have some folks around that think thier feces is without odor.

First off, if you're going to be critical of what I or anyone else posted, I would appreciate the courtesy of a direct address. You know who you're referring to, and I know who you're referring to, and this passive-aggressive p-footing around doesn't make you any more diplomatic or "unifying."

You say this in one sentence:

My guess is she left her 1911 in condition 1 in a range bag in the back seat of the truck, not thinking the kid would pull it out and play with it. He did and so she lost a pound of flesh. Maybe a half pound... I dunno

But in the next breath you say this:

So many IMMEDIATELY ASSume that the gun was unsecued, like in your head she just through it in the back seat, put the kid in his booster seat, and drove off.

So which is it? We withhold judgment until a formal investigation reveals the true facts? Or do we take the pieces we do have, try to fill in some details, and use it as a teachable moment while the incident itself is fresh in our head, while everyone else is still talking about it?

The problem with all the handwringing and "we need to evaluate these instances to prevent them in the future" bluster is (SHOCKER!) there are already ways all of these things can be prevented. Just like ALL automobile accidents can be prevented, and we know HOW they can be prevented.

I couldn't disagree with you more. Each instance of a negligent discharge is a teachable moment. No two situations are exactly alike, and there's a seemingly insignificant turn of fact that might have made all the difference in the world. Taking your automobile accidents scenario as an example, when I was learning to ride motorcycles, I read up on as many accident reports as I could. Sure, the classes and the textbooks describe the Search, Evaluate, and Execute strategy in the general sense, but knowing that alone doesn't make me a safe rider. Every accident report I internalized short circuits the learning process of what I need to look for during the Evaluate phase, as well as what I need to do to react to it while keeping the shiny side up. I think of it as feeding data points to an artificial intelligence computer, with each data point making the computer that much smarter and that much faster to be able to appropriately respond.

And so it is with negligent discharges. Thanks to this lady, I know I need to be extra careful in securing my firearm while I drive with my kid in the back. At least in California, we are required to store the firearm unloaded in a locked container. Because of this incident, maybe I'll go through the extra step of placing that locked container in my trunk, just so my kid doesn't open the locked container. If I am carrying concealed, maybe I need to check for the firearm after I strap my kid into her booster seat and before I start the car.

My point is we, as gun owners, should feel sympathy for this woman, getting shot sucks. So many IMMEDIATELY ASSume that the gun was unsecued, like in your head she just through it in the back seat, put the kid in his booster seat, and drove off.
One possibility that has not been mentioned that should be, is if she had the gun in a holster or tucked into the seat and it either fell out and the kid picked it up and it discharged, or the kid reached forward playing with Mommy and managed to trigger the gun in its holster, exactly what ounce of prevention would you think was overlooked?

The end result speak for themselves. Regardless of whatever excuse or justification based on some preventative measure she may have already taken, it came up short, and she got shot unintentionally. The safety process broke down somewhere along the way, and we need to be our own harshest critics of that breakdown. Thankfully I have not had any negligent discharges, and I'd like to think part of the reason why is because I am as diligent as I can be with respect to safety. That's not to say I won't ever have a negligent discharge, but if it does, I deserve, and I expect the harshest criticisms of any of my shortcomings that is analyzed after the fact. Anything short of that is a disservice to my freedom to keep and bear firearms.

In motorcycle riding, there's a saying that it's a matter of when, not if, you'll drop your bike. I know of no corollary in the firearms realm.

[tanks]

Not sure a 4-year old can be negligent...

The mother was negligent in leaving a loaded weapon where a child could get to it.