How to shoot an intruder with bullet proof vest

[jumbopanda]

I'll go with my po-boy Five-seveN, thanks. At least ammo for that is only about 14 cents a round.

You mean the Seven-Four?

[leelaw]

yeah...also keep in mind that evening wearing a vest that may prevent penetration, it will still most likely knock him down. Plus there is a ton of pain from it so it's not like your shot will be useless

Bullets do not knock people down. You're thinking of Hollywood stunt stuff.

As for what to do if someone is wearing body armor and you have to use lethal force - two to the center mass, then one to the head, in the triangle created by the eyes and nose.

[m98]

would a taser work thru a vest? if so, how's about a taser/scattergun combo?

[G-Man WC]

You choice would be head or crotch. The crotch is the first choice for a no reflex kill, meaning after you hit the spine there not going to move very fast if at all or have the ability to use a gun if they were holding it.
Solider of Fortune magazine did a spread on this subject many years ago-g

[leelaw]

would a taser work thru a vest? if so, how's about a taser/scattergun combo?

Don't bring a Taser to a gun fight.

Shoot to stop the threat. You don't need to justify why you had him ride the lightning before you shot him - it only adds confusion to a scenario which needs a clean explanation.

[m98]

Don't bring a Taser to a gun fight.

Shoot to stop the threat. You don't need to justify why you had him ride the lightning before you shot him - it only adds confusion to a scenario which needs a clean explanation.

you try to use a less lethal form of defense but the intruder still manage to attack therefore you had to use deadly force.

[elSquid]

One word: flamethrower.

-- Michael

[leelaw]

You choice would be head or crotch. The crotch is the first choice for a no reflex kill, meaning after you hit the spine there not going to move very fast if at all or have the ability to use a gun if they were holding it.
Solider of Fortune magazine did a spread on this subject many years ago-g

Years back, officers in Lodi (I believe) were engaging a suspect who was fleeing in a vehicle from the officers. the suspect had a hostage. After the suspect's vehicle became stuck in a field, he and hostage exited the vehicle. The suspect held a gun to the hostage's head, while pulling/walking away from the officers. One officer took a shot with his patrol AR-15. The round severed the suspect's spine, about midway down his back, causing the suspect to fall. The hostage was able to get away, but the suspect retained the ability to use his upper body, and he began returning fire upon the officers. It wasn't until he he was shot several more times, and his gun happened to jam, that he was out of the fight.

Severing the spine, while not a bad idea, isn't the best choice. If you're going to try to click off someone's lights, go for the head, and sever the brain's control of the body right at the source - severing it elsewhere can still let the suspect have enough mobility to continue fighing, or kill you in return.

[leelaw]

you try to use a less lethal form of defense but the intruder still manage to attack therefore you had to use deadly force.

Lawyer: How do you know that the suspect simply wasn't convulsing from the control of the Taser, and in fact he was completely incapacitated at the time you fired your fatal shots? He didn't present a life-threatening threat to you at the time you murdered him, did he?

ETA - Lawyer: So why did you use a less-than-lethal force option? He wasn't really a deadly threat until you antagonized him with the Taser. You escalated the situation, didn't you?

If you have a second person defending themselves along with you, then dual-force isn't a bad option, but don't rely on the Taser. If lethal force is needed, use it, don't use a lower level of force, and don't waste precious time testing out lower-level force options.

[m98]

my main question was are taser's effective against body armor, just in the case that it that was all a person had at the moment.

[leelaw]

my main question was are taser's effective against body armor, just in the case that it that was all a person had at the moment.

Tasers can penetrate up to 2" total of clothing or other similar material (Kevlar). Unless it is a vest lined with a conductive material to defeat the taser, if you have good hits and there is less than a total 2" gap between skin and the probes, yes, it will work.

[m98]

[QUOTE=leelaw;1818069]Lawyer: How do you know that the suspect simply wasn't convulsing from the control of the Taser, and in fact he was completely incapacitated at the time you fired your fatal shots? He didn't present a life-threatening threat to you at the time you murdered him, did he?

The suspect still remains in the upright position and points gun and shoots at you as if the shock was in no effect.

[leelaw]

[QUOTE=m98;1818087]

Lawyer: How do you know that the suspect simply wasn't convulsing from the control of the Taser, and in fact he was completely incapacitated at the time you fired your fatal shots? He didn't present a life-threatening threat to you at the time you murdered him, did he?

The suspect still remains in the upright position and points gun and shoots at you as if the shock was in no effect.

Lawyer: How could you be sure his muscles weren't contracting and the shot was an accident caused by your deploying the Taser?

It just muddies the waters a bit, see? Either way, you've now got a guy firing shots at you, and you're caught with your pants down.

[Seesm]

One to the head chances are he or she will be dead.

[kicker72]

OK guys reverse failure drill It's redundant yes?