Q re the right of deadly self defense

[MT1]

I remember this story very well as I use that parking garage often.

[MT1]

...so they should be put to death?

Any kind of sexual assault should result in removal from society...

[CHS]

For those that say "Seriously? I know that's how we all feel, but you kill a guy for an ***-grope?", you're right. Perhaps I should wait for vaginal penetration? Get a clue, any type of sexual assault is unacceptable.

There's a difference between "unacceptable" and "justified homicide".

Your wife is going to think you're all shades of awesome when she's stuck with a legal bill, mortgage, and taking care of the kids while you're sitting in jail on a murder charge because someone copped a feel on your wife's butt.

There's also a SLIGHT difference between rape, and a butt-feel.

[redcliff]

Couldn't groping be construed as sexual battery? If so isn't that a felony which you could draw your pistol to order them under citizen's arrest?

[leelaw]

The first question is at what point, if any, do the two guys have the right to shoot? Remenber, they are "only" being harrassed. There is no threat to life here, as far as they know.

Then there is no right to shoot. No articulated threat to life means that a shoot would be homicide, or manslaughter.

The second question goes to tactics. At what point, if any, do you draw a weapon to deter intimidating behavior? Obviously, it seems to me, you don't want to threaten deadly force if you're not prepared to deliver. Also, it risks elevating an intimidating situation into a deadly one.

You draw when you are prepared to shoot. You are prepared to shoot when in life-threatening defense of one's self or another.

[leelaw]

I like this guy. But in my case, my wife would draw much faster than me and place a new a_hole on the guy's forehead with her .357. I would just stand back like a limp dick and say "nice shot honey."

For those that say "Seriously? I know that's how we all feel, but you kill a guy for an ***-grope?", you're right. Perhaps I should wait for vaginal penetration? Get a clue, any type of sexual assault is unacceptable.

I sure hope this is just you and professorhard trying to play Mr. Tough Guy online. Neither of you are anywhere near justified in what amounts to your advocation of unjustified homicide.

[CHS]

I would kill the one that touched my wife as soon as it happened and depending on how the other reacted kill him too. Rather be judged by 12 than carried by 6

I like this guy. But in my case, my wife would draw much faster than me and place a new a_hole on the guy's forehead with her .357. I would just stand back like a limp dick and say "nice shot honey."

It's guys like you who make it easier for the Brady's to prevent states from issuing CCW's. These are the exact scenarios they always warn the public and politicians that are going to happen if we allow citizens to carry guns.

Thanks guys. You're awesome.

[redcliff]

It's guys like you who make it easier for the Brady's to prevent states from issuing CCW's. These are the exact scenarios they always warn the public and politicians that are going to happen if we allow citizens to carry guns.

Thanks guys. You're awesome.

Personally I think the state would be better off if some of these gang bangers did get shot in the head from time to time by citizen's they harass.

[JDoe]

I like this guy. But in my case, my wife would draw much faster than me and place a new a_hole on the guy's forehead with her .357. I would just stand back like a limp dick and say "nice shot honey."

For those that say "Seriously? I know that's how we all feel, but you kill a guy for an ***-grope?", you're right. Perhaps I should wait for vaginal penetration? Get a clue, any type of sexual assault is unacceptable.

You just told us you and your wife carry illegally and are criminals OR are making stuff up because anyone that has a CCW permit in CA would not shoot someone for grabbing her αss. Does your wife know that you are publicly suggesting that she would murder someone for grabbing her αss?

[JDoe]

Personally I think the state would be better off if some of these gang bangers did get shot in the head from time to time by citizen's they harass.

Better off how? If the citizen shoots a gang banger in the head without justification that citizen is going to jail. We lose a tax paying, contributing member of society and have to pay for keeping his butt in jail and possibly welfare or worse for his family.

[JDoe]

Having a CCW doesn't mean you're a cop

Couldn't groping be construed as sexual battery? If so isn't that a felony which you could draw your pistol to order them under citizen's arrest?

Is there an imminent threat of death or grave injury to you or someone else at the moment you pull your pistol? If there isn't then a reasonable person might conclude that the person you pull a pistol on has a reasonable fear of death or grave injury because of your actions and would be justified in defending himself by shooting (you) until the threat stops.

Think someone can't shoot you while you have a gun trained on them? Have a look at this video, it's from a TV show but the shooter/actor is/was one of the top marksmen in the U.S.

[JDoe]

Any kind of sexual assault should result in removal from society...

The law does not always agree with everyone's opinion.

[JDoe]

...if you carry a CCW license you should already know the answer to the question.

Exactly!

Best to back down, call for police assistance and keep an eye on the situation. No point trying to be Charles Bronson here.

You're on a roll! I couldn't agree more. Psst, one of my CCWs is signed by Charles Bronson. Charles H. Bronson.

Problem with multiple thugs is the likely hood of one of them being armed is very high. Brandish a gun will just get you shot. Most thugs are not afraid of being shot.

Too often, if a "thug" is armed just the hint of aggression from you can get you shot.

[JDoe]

I would kill the one that touched my wife as soon as it happened and depending on how the other reacted kill him too. Rather be judged by 12 than carried by 6

So the only witnesses to your act might be the two guys you killed and your wife? That doesn't sound like a very strong defense is possible to the second degree murder charge (seeing as you intended to kill and there is no legal justification for killing). In this case I believe that you would be looking at imprisonment in the state prison for a term of 15 years to life.

While you're in prison the two gang banger's friends find out where your wife lives and finish off what you thought their friends might have been thinking before killing her, your dogs and burning your house to the ground.

Then you have to spend you days in protective custody with the pedophiles and sex offenders for company because there is sure to be a hit put out on you in prison.

So for 5 seconds worth of reacting without thinking you have a lifetime to regret escalating an otherwise very forgettable incident.

[JDoe]

The first question is at what point, if any, do the two guys have the right to shoot? Remenber, they are "only" being harrassed. There is no threat to life here, as far as they know.

No threat to life and no threat of grave injury means no right to shoot.

The second question goes to tactics. At what point, if any, do you draw a weapon to deter intimidating behavior? Obviously, it seems to me, you don't want to threaten deadly force if you're not prepared to deliver. Also, it risks elevating an intimidating situation into a deadly one.

You can't legally draw or brandish to "deter intimidating behavior." If you do it could easily be seen as an act of aggression that could result in the imminent death or grave injury of an innocent person and that could result in the justifiable homicide of you by either the person(s) you are seeking to deter (as they act in self defense from you) or a bystander like a cop, off duty cop or CCW holder seeking to protect the person you are trying to deter.