Q re the right of deadly self defense

[Brooke]

I hope this is an OK place to post this. People here talk about the CCW classes, and I was wondering in particular what the CCW classes teaching on this issue is. The general fact pattern is based on an incident an incident in Santa Rosa a couple of years ago - and that may get tried in a couple more ... ::rollseyes::

The scene is a garage across the street from a hip hop club (in Santa Rosa? I know ...) where gang bangers hang out. Two guys and three women park and walk toward the club. Several GB-looking guys start harrassing the women and end up groping one.

The first question is at what point, if any, do the two guys have the right to shoot? Remenber, they are "only" being harrassed. There is no threat to life here, as far as they know.

The second question goes to tactics. At what point, if any, do you draw a weapon to deter intimidating behavior? Obviously, it seems to me, you don't want to threaten deadly force if you're not prepared to deliver. Also, it risks elevating an intimidating situation into a deadly one.

(Just so you know, during the actual altercation one of the thugs shot and killed one of the men, who had been warding off the groping of his wife.)

It seems a tough call, legally ... Maybe I'm wrong ...

[sorensen440]

You don't draw unless your ready to shoot and you don't do that unless you feel your a threat to you're life (or someone elses)

[M. Sage]

you dont draw unless your ready to shoot and you dont do that unless you feel your a threat to you life (or someone elses)

Pretty much. Deadly force is an option to stop/prevent a rape, too.

I'd like to add that in practical terms, I'd be willing to brandish if I felt that it would de-escalate a situation that was rapidly sliding into a deadly force scenario and I believed that I could avoid shooting someone by drawing and letting them know that I'm about to shoot them. It may not be 100% legal, but it beats having to shoot someone IMO.

[professorhard]

I would kill the one that touched my wife as soon as it happened and depending on how the other reacted kill him too. Rather be judged by 12 than carried by 6

[Brooke]

You don't draw unless your ready to shoot and you don't do that unless you feel your a threat to you're life (or someone elses)

I know that's the black letter law. So you'd keep you weapon in your pocket, right?

[sorensen440]

Pretty much. Deadly force is an option to stop/prevent a rape, too.

I didn't think about that
I suppose I would feel the life of the person being raped was in danger

[Brooke]

I'd like to add that in practical terms, I'd be willing to brandish if I felt that it would de-escalate a situation that was rapidly sliding into a deadly force scenario and I believed that I could avoid shooting someone by drawing and letting them know that I'm about to shoot them. It may not be 100% legal, but it beats having to shoot someone IMO.

I agree that, if it de-escalates the situation, it beats having to shoot someone. But if it doesn't, you're stuck either shooting - illegally? - or backing down or having them draw a weapon in response, which makes everything a lot worse ...

[sorensen440]

I know that's the black letter law. So you'd keep you weapon in your pocket, right?

I would get her behind me and back up while telling them to back down
I can draw and get on target pretty quick if need be
2-3 crazy guys ( or maybe 1 really crazy guy) coming towards me and I feel my life is in danger

[Brooke]

I would get her behind me and back up while telling them to back down

That sounds like it would play pretty well in terms of self defense.

[Brooke]

I would kill the one that touched my wife as soon as it happened

Seriously? I know that's how we all feel, but you kill a guy for an ***-grope?

Not trying to be a dick here, just hashing out an area where the black letter law doesn't mesh with reality ...

[sorensen440]

I would kill the one that touched my wife as soon as it happened and depending on how the other reacted kill him too. Rather be judged by 12 than carried by 6

I hope your just being an internet tough guy here
your wife deserves to not have you be in jail for murder

[Brooke]

an ***-grope?

LOL Calguns has software that automatically substitutes *** for the word a?





Yes, it does, so please don't spell it out for us. The filters are there for a reason, don't go around 'em. Thanks.

[Vinz]

Tough call, but if you carry a CCW license you should already know the answer to the question.
Best to back down, call for police assistance and keep an eye on the situation. No point trying to be Charles Bronson here.

Problem with multiple thugs is the likely hood of one of them being armed is very high. Brandish a gun will just get you shot. Most thugs are not afraid of being shot.
I'm surprised security wasn't heavy at that hiphop club in Santa Rosa.

Brooke, is it possible for you to be a dick? Just curious.
vinz

[AKman]

I would kill the one that touched my wife as soon as it happened and depending on how the other reacted kill him too. Rather be judged by 12 than carried by 6

I like this guy. But in my case, my wife would draw much faster than me and place a new a_hole on the guy's forehead with her .357. I would just stand back like a limp dick and say "nice shot honey."

For those that say "Seriously? I know that's how we all feel, but you kill a guy for an ***-grope?", you're right. Perhaps I should wait for vaginal penetration? Get a clue, any type of sexual assault is unacceptable.

[Vinz]

For those that say "Seriously? I know that's how we all feel, but you kill a guy for an ***-grope?", you're right. Perhaps I should wait for vaginal penetration? Get a clue, any type of sexual assault is unacceptable.

...so they should be put to death? I know its hind sight but no holds barred when the other gun is drawn. Too bad someone had to die for defending his wife.

I've been in similar harassment situations like this several times and no one had to die. Busted knuckles and cut lip. Get loud, stand your ground and they usually back down.
vinz