Got a call from Consumer Affairs...

[pullnshoot25]

Not sure how you can compare detainment to shooting someone

Just because owners of a property want something done a certain way doesn't make it legal. I was illegally detained by rent-a-cops and regardless of whether or not they knew the law or not concerning OC they still dont have a "reasonable" right to detain me, no matter how anyone cuts the cake.

The comparison of detainment vs. shooting is the same in the fact that just because one says "go shoot him" doesn't mean that the shooter will be exempt from all normal laws, as that is still murder.

[gotgunz]

So my question is why did you stay? I mean, you weren't breaking any laws and a security guard told you to stay put????? and you complied?

Seems like you were seeking a venue to promote your cause and you allowed them to provide it by staying and now you're pissed because nobody wants to help you punish them for "allowing" you to stay?

As far as what you should do?

Don't open carry in that mall again because next time, now that they have a recorded contact with you, you may very well end up being detained for trespassing. Then who would you ***** to about being detained?

[ElvenSoul]

tee shirts would be better

tee shirts would be better

I really don't understand these OC people. Hear me out.

So you say you are open carrying in order to promote awareness of the legality of unloaded open carry. So why FOR HEAVEN'S SAKE don't you have a bunch of business cards printed up that say something like:

KNOW THE LAW! YOU COULD BE SUED!
Don't let it happen to you or your business!

Open carrying of an unloaded handgun is PERFECTLY LEGAL in California under sections (yada yada code citation) of the California public code. Someone who is legally carrying an unloaded firearm in accordance with the law can SUE if they are subsequently detained or subject to unwarranted police harrassment due to actions of a business owner or employees thereof. Help educate your fellow Californians about LEGAL OPEN CARRY - pass this card along!

(small print phone numbers and or web sites where they can verify for themselves that this is in fact totally legal).

When you walk into a business with your legal OC on your hip, with a big happy face go right up to the clerk and say, "Excuse me, where are the canned tomatoes?" or other question appropriate to the venue, hand them the card, and then proceed back towards where the clerk told you the canned tomatoes are. Come back up to the counter with your can of tomatoes, pay for your merchandise and as you're leaving grin and say "So did you look at that card I handed you? Pretty interesting stuff, hey? Man it feels great to live in a free country, doesn't it?" Then leave without further ado. If at any time you are approached and asked to leave, say "I'm sorry you don't want my business... is it because of my LEGAL unloaded open carry?" When they confirm say "I'm sorry to hear that. I'll go now and I won't be back, with or without my LEGALLY carried handgun."

BTW I wouldn't recommend trying this in a bank even if you think it IS perfectly legal.

Now, the above may not suit everyone and every situation, but it is an example of trying to be pro-active in preventing trouble instead of just "standing around" in a manner that you can reasonably predict will provoke a reaction and then complaining about the reaction.

[pullnshoot25]

So my question is why did you stay? I mean, you weren't breaking any laws and a security guard told you to stay put????? and you complied?

Seems like you were seeking a venue to promote your cause and you allowed them to provide it by staying and now you're pissed because nobody wants to help you punish them for "allowing" you to stay?

As far as what you should do?

Don't open carry in that mall again because next time, now that they have a recorded contact with you, you may very well end up being detained for trespassing. Then who would you ***** to about being detained?

I wasn't aware of laws concerning security guards at that point in time but now that I am, I am a little pissed. I did not "allow" them to detain me either, I am not going to walk against 4 guys that easily outweigh me by 30-50lbs that are probably armed with pepper spray.

Not planning to go back there strapped, worry not.

[gotgunz]

I wasn't aware of laws concerning security guards at that point in time but now that I am, I am a little pissed. I did not "allow" them to detain me either, I am not going to walk against 4 guys that easily outweigh me by 30-50lbs that are probably armed with pepper spray.

Not planning to go back there strapped, worry not.

So you went out in public with a sidearm on your hip knowing that the public is likely to react to such a sight unprepared? You were going to a mall that, like all malls, has security. You have been there before so you knew they had security and you failed to learn what their legal limitations were in dealing with the public on their property... I got it now; so again, why exactly are you insisting to open carry?

And you wouldn't have to walk on 4 guys; just leave. I fail to see the problem here; you do carry your gun for protection right? Oh, yeah they had pepper spray and you are unloaded; forgot, my bad.

[N6ATF]

Got a call back from Consumer Affairs and the rep said that this case was beyond his jurisdiction since it is apparently MALL policy, not the security guard company's policy, to allow detainment. How this makes sense I have no freaking clue but he said that the security guards acted within reason and were just trying to keep their jobs. He said to go after the mall if I want results.

Am I missing anything here? Seriously, this is lame.

[elsensei]

file a lawsuit. that's the only thing that'll get results. threats of monetary damages bring clarity to an issue lik enothing else.

[gotgunz]

file a lawsuit. that's the only thing that'll get results. threats of monetary damages bring clarity to an issue lik enothing else.

This is true! And you would probably get a paycheck in an amount to cover the time you spent while being detained.

[aileron]

Timothy McVeigh (sp) was a blonde homegrown terrorist if I recall correctly. Hair color also has nothing to do with someones intentions. I know your intentions in your eyes have nothing to do with anything illegal but other peoples perception of you in and outside your community may be different.

He was a rebel, he did not attack civilians to insight terror and bring about a change in political will, he attacked the government for their actions. That is not a terrorist.

what he considered to be a tyrannical federal government."

Rebel:
Main Entry:
Pronunciation:
\ˈre-bəl\
Function:
adjective
Etymology:
Middle English, from Anglo-French, from Latin rebellis, from re- + bellum war, from Old Latin duellum
Date:
14th century

1 a: opposing or taking arms against a government or ruler b: of or relating to rebels.

The government is trying to reclassify terrorist in the minds of the people. Same crap as "what is the 2nd amendment" in the minds of Americans. Don't fall for it. BTW, I am not advocating what McVeigh did. Just get pissed when the government b.s. passes. Its dangerous. Because everything criminals do will eventually be an terrorist act, and the government is getting carte blanche to do want they want with terrorists.

[Mute]

If you want civil action you're going to have to sue. If you want criminal charges you'll have to call the police and file a personal complaint and ask that the guards be arrested for false imprisonment. If someone from the mall (besides the guards) asked that you be detained, you can probably ask that they be arrested as well.

[pullnshoot25]

So you went out in public with a sidearm on your hip knowing that the public is likely to react to such a sight unprepared? You were going to a mall that, like all malls, has security. You have been there before so you knew they had security and you failed to learn what their legal limitations were in dealing with the public on their property... I got it now; so again, why exactly are you insisting to open carry?

And you wouldn't have to walk on 4 guys; just leave. I fail to see the problem here; you do carry your gun for protection right? Oh, yeah they had pepper spray and you are unloaded; forgot, my bad.

Meh, it was a small oversight but lesson learned.

Even if I were loaded, I would not use my weapon against them. Are you advocating for injuring or killing security guards?

[BigKevLA]

Meh, it was a small oversight but lesson learned.

Even if I were loaded, I would not use my weapon against them. Are you advocating for injuring or killing security guards?

What are you hoping to gain? It seems like it is a game to you. Have you clearly thought out your actions? Why put yourself in situations that will have long term impact? You are going to have tons of paper on you regarding law enforcement contact. I hope you never want to have a career in law enforcement.

[45DAVID1]

What are you hoping to gain? It seems like it is a game to you. Have you clearly thought out your actions? Why put yourself in situations that will have long term impact? You are going to have tons of paper on you regarding law enforcement contact. I hope you never want to have a career in law enforcement.

Every forum needs to have an online commando. I think he is ours. I now promote you to Command Master General 3rd Class level 101 PullnShoot. (this is a joke of course. I don't wish this to be misconstrued as me making fun of your legal rights)

[pullnshoot25]

What are you hoping to gain? It seems like it is a game to you. Have you clearly thought out your actions? Why put yourself in situations that will have long term impact? You are going to have tons of paper on you regarding law enforcement contact. I hope you never want to have a career in law enforcement.

I would never want to be a state employee. That may be the path for some people, that isn't one for me.

Everything we do is a game, finding the next loophole, garnering support. This includes building OLLs, getting around the handgun roster and yes, even OCing. I did what I did according to the law and the guards should have to follow the law as well.

As to paper, I don't think that there is a lot of it because I have not been arrested or anything for this sort of stuff, but please correct me if I am wrong.

[pullnshoot25]

Every forum needs to have an online commando. I think he is ours. I now promote you to Command Master General 3rd Class level 101 PullnShoot. (this is a joke of course. I don't wish this to be misconstrued as me making fun of your legal rights)

HAHA no offense taken.

I'm in college, I have to protest something, right?