DOJ - Prohibited Persons

[CSACANNONEER]

I'm not deflecting responsibility and take full responsibility for all of my actions. What do I need help for? Alcoholism? I have a drink once every couple of months.

You made it clear that you are not taking responsibility for your actions when you said that you were "at the wrong place at the wrong time". I don't know if you suffer from alcoholism or not. However, you are in denial and blaming circumstances instead of blaming yourself for your irresponsible actions. BTW, the frequency of your drinking doesn't mean that you are or are not an alcoholic. Again, I'm not passing judgement about your drinking, just your denial and maturity level.

BTW, I remember when CA passed the law against drinking while riding a bicycle. I believe it was in 1981 or '82 when I read it in a newspaper just a few days after I had been on a 20 mile ride with bourbon and water in my water bottle. I was a dumb kid back then.

[golfish]

Look at the form 4473 next time you fill it out. You checked no to the box that asked if you are an alcoholic and/or an unlawful user of narcotics. Alcoholics are barred federally from possessing firearms. It's also a federal crime to falsify anything on that form.

The fud is deep in this thread..

OP, your just beating a dead horse.

[JDay]

The fud is deep in this thread..

What FUD? Item 11e on the 4473 covers alcohol. And you are informed in writing just above where you sign that falsifying anything on that form (written statement) or even lying to the store clerk (oral statement) is a federal felony. Just because prosecution is rare doesn't make it any less illegal.

[CSACANNONEER]

I'm not certain. I did read through the terms of my probation and there is no mention of firearms.

OK, I just read form 4473 question 11 b. and think that this might be the issue. "any other crime which the judge could imprison you for more than one year". I can only two things. First, that if you screw up while on probation, the judge could sentence you to more than one year. Secondly, that you either weren't aware of that and entered false information on the form which, in itself, is another criminal offense. Maybe the fact that you are on probation for more than one year is enough to make you a prohibited person. You really should contact an attorney fast. If you own other firearms, you might end up meeting about 30 really nice DOJ agents at 3am when they kick in your door to take your other firearms away. This is happening all over the state right now. You do really need to contact an attorney well versed in CA firearms laws NOW!!!!!!

[Condorguns]

Question for any of you know who are familiar with the topic - I excitedly purchased a new .308 8 days ago. Yesterday, I receive a call from my FFL and he tells me that my background check didn't go through. Something about me being a prohibited person. I am not a felon and I don't have any violent crime misdemeanors.

I was convicted of a DUI misdemeanor about 18 months ago, but that shouldn't preclude me from owning or purchasing FAs. I'm on 3 year summary probation but my probation is silent on owning or purchasing FAs. DMV did however require that I get a breathalyzer installed in my car and my drivers license is 'conditional.' I can drive, provided the condition that I have a breathalyzer installed in my vehicle. I spoke to the DOJ earlier today and they told me to wait 2 weeks until I receive notice in the mail outlining the cause for denial. They also told me that the only thing they (being the DOJ) do with my drivers license is cross reference it with the DMV to determine whether or not it was 'valid' (whatever that means). Is it possible that because my drivers license is currently conditional, that DMV didn't issue a 'valid' response to the DOJ? Any answers are quite appreciated.

I'm going to bypass the lecture and just answer the question based on my experience.

Most of the time a DUI conviction (misdemeanor) will not prevent you from passing a background check even if you are still on probation. In fact I can't remember a customer who had this happen and I have had people denied for just about every reason you can think of. You will need to see what else they have in your file or if they just have the wrong information.

If it was a problem with your license then the notice that the FFL would have received would have been a DMV rejection and not a denial.

As others have said you will receive a letter with more info. At that time you can take this to the next step to try and fix the issue that is keeping you from getting your firearm.

Good luck

[JDay]

OK, I just read form 4473 question 11 b. and think that this might be the issue. "any other crime which the judge could imprison you for more than one year". I can only two things. First, that if you screw up while on probation, the judge could sentence you to more than one year. Secondly, that you either weren't aware of that and entered false information on the form which, in itself, is another criminal offense. Maybe the fact that you are on probation for more than one year is enough to make you a prohibited person. You really should contact an attorney fast. If you own other firearms, you might end up meeting about 30 really nice DOJ agents at 3am when they kick in your door to take your other firearms away. This is happening all over the state right now. You do really need to contact an attorney well versed in CA firearms laws NOW!!!!!!

He on statutory (misdemeanor) probation. Formal probation is for felonies.

[ChuckDizzle]

He on statutory (misdemeanor) probation. Formal probation is for felonies.

I'm pretty sure I nailed it when I suspected that he agreed to alcohol addiction counseling as a part of his probation.

In addition he is mistaken that AA attendance is a requirement for a DUI conviction. A good lawyer would have told him that by agreeing to enroll in an outpatient addiction treatment program as a term of his probation he would be admitting an addiction to alcohol, otherwise such a condition wouldn't be appropriate.

[PMA]

If you own other firearms, you might end up meeting about 30 really nice DOJ agents at 3am when they kick in your door to take your other firearms away. This is happening all over the state right now. You do really need to contact an attorney well versed in CA firearms laws NOW!!!!!!

This is primarily what I'm concerned about. I called my attorney immediately when I found out about the situation. Unfortunately, yesterday was Yom Kippur and he wasn't taking calls and today he's been in court all day.

My conviction was March 2014, so about 18 months ago. I would assume (as much as I hate to assume) that if the DOJ was going to take possession of my collection, they would have done so by now - or maybe there's a backlog > 18 months...either way, I don't know. Does anybody know where I can begin to search for attorney's that specialize or have knowledge in CA firearm laws?

[ocabj]

This is why we can't have nice things.

[wireless]

That's it. By entering the program you essentially admitted to being addicted to alcohol and are now as such a prohibited person.

That does not show up on a background check.

Your terms include AA meetings. That means you are in treatment for alcoholism.

Doesn't work that way. Plenty of non alcoholics are mandated to go to AA meetings when they get a DUI. Not everyone who gets a DUI is an alcoholic. On top of that he isn't "in treatment". Treatment requires being under medical supervision of a licensed facility or doctor/nurse. In patient, out patient or any level in between is "in treatment". Medical records are protected and do not show up on a backround check. It even requires a court order to confirm or deny if a patient is at a treatment center if the patient hasn't signed an ROI for the person asking. Lastly, AA doesn't have a list of members other than phone lists at meetings and general service. So unless the courts are sneaking around to AA meetings, stealing lists of names, and making a database of members, it will not show up on a background check. 5150, 5250, and other involuntary holds do show up on background check. Most likely he's prohibited because he's on probation.

The fud is deep in this thread..

OP, your just beating a dead horse.

Yup.

[Tere_Hanges]

If all you have is a plain and simple misdemeanor DUI conviction, then you are not a prohibited person. Hell, you can have multiple DUIs and still be able to buy/possess a firearm, as long as they are misdemeanors. Doesnt matter if you are on informal probation or go to AA. AA is not a requirement for DUI penalty. There is a specific DUI class you have to attend. Misdemeanors by definition are only punishible by up to a year maximum. If you could get more than a year it would be a felony.

There was either a mistake (happens all the time with gov agencies, big surprise) or something else on your record.

Just wait for the letter and dont get into it with the online, holyier than thou, armchair lecturers telling you how bad you are and how you should burn in hell for eternity. DUIs are no joke but they are minor crimes that have no connection to responsible firearm ownership. Learn from your mistake and be extra careful moving forward. Lots of good people make mistakes. Just own up to it and move on.

[CSACANNONEER]

DUIs are no joke but they are minor crimes that have no connection to responsible firearm ownership.

Minor crimes? Unless you're talking about a 20 year old blowing a 0.01 and receiving a DUI, you're wrong. Also, ANY irresponsible and potentially dangerous behavior does connect (morally if not legally) with responsible firearms handling and ownership.

[Harley]

Really? Are you kidding me? Substance abusers? You've never had a beer, a glass of wine, or a shot of whiskey?

No....I've never had a breathalyzer in my car.

Wake up dude...

After everything I have read that you posted tells me that you shouldn't be allowed to own a gun. I'm sorry but you should get your life straight first instead of thinking about owning a gun....

[Awesomesauce]

...Does anybody know where I can begin to search for attorney's that specialize or have knowledge in CA firearm laws?

A few names mentioned before on this site (I'm sure there is more):
Davis and Associates

http://www.calgunlawyers.com/

Michel Lawyers

http://michellawyers.com/

Donald Kilmer

http://www.dklawoffice.com/

I'm going to bypass the lecture and just answer the question based on my experience.

Thank you!

[Sousuke]

You made it clear that you are not taking responsibility for your actions when you said that you were "at the wrong place at the wrong time". I don't know if you suffer from alcoholism or not. However, you are in denial and blaming circumstances instead of blaming yourself for your irresponsible actions. BTW, the frequency of your drinking doesn't mean that you are or are not an alcoholic. Again, I'm not passing judgement about your drinking, just your denial and maturity level.

BTW, I remember when CA passed the law against drinking while riding a bicycle. I believe it was in 1981 or '82 when I read it in a newspaper just a few days after I had been on a 20 mile ride with bourbon and water in my water bottle. I was a dumb kid back then.

I just learned something. Did not realize they prosecuted this. Not that I've done it, but the thought of riding a bicycle to a party etc. has crossed my mind in the past.