Calling all security guards

[CSDGuy]

I believe that he was detained by security of a mall and had LE called for Unloaded Open Carry.

[dfletcher]

Just got off the phone with Professional Security Consultants (the company whose lackeys detained me on the 1st for open carrying) and basically, they are not allowing me to look at the security procedures for their company so I now can't find any real information about what happened.

Basically, the company is standing behind their guards and said that they acted reasonably given the circumstances, even when they did not give me the option to leave. According to their lawyer, they were justified in investigating and for reasonably detaining me, but I don't know if this is supported by any of the laws.

I have a little research on my hands to do but if there are any guards that work for PSC on this board that would be helpful. Even better, anyone that knows about the laws regarding these things would be really nice as well.

I am LIVID that these people won't quit being lame and start answering my questions with legal support.

OK, off to work for a little while. Thanks guys!

-N8

I've no idea who these folks are or who is right or wrong. No judgement, been out of town for a week. But there is absolutely no good reason for them to voluntarily answer your questions, as in no good can come from them doing so. If an individual should not voluntarily speak to the police why should a possible defendant speak to a possible plaintiff?

And don't get livid - no one thinks well when they're upset. If you're going to deal with the situation yourself deal with it as though you're not personally involved.

[N6ATF]

I have to agree with tyrist. Those guards shouldn't have been confronting someone who's armed. Second, unless you're being detained under the merchant rule (basically suspicion of shoplifting), they're not allowed to detain you. They prevented you from leaving - that's false arrest. Outside of the Merchant Rule, security guards have zero authority to detain anyone. Their options are simple: arrest or they must let you go.

This.

[pullnshoot25]

OK, looking into it further is making me want to look into retaining a lawyer. Anyone know a good lawyer down in SD and how I go about doing all of this? What is the average cost?

This started out as a simple request for information and a possible apology. Now they upped the ante.

[Matt C]

AGAIN, security guards CANNOT detain. They arrested him. All he needs is the DA to subpoena a copy of the tapes at that time to see them surrounding him stopping his leaving. He wasn't even charged, let alone convicted of a felony. They were in the wrong, not that hard to prove.

They actually can detain, for suspected theft and for suspected unauthorized recording of copyrighted films, and I think also for library book theft, but of course that's theft as well.

I don't want to go into details, but I have actually sued over this before, and all I can say it DON'T use small claims court. It's a joke.

The law is on your side here, and if you sue them you can issue subpoenas, but they will most likely claim the film was deleted/erased.

Good luck.

[ElvenSoul]

this was in California right

go to http://www.bsis.ca.gov/

unless you where on Private Property or they witnessed you commiting a crime...you can proscute them for false arrest and sue in civil court

[ElvenSoul]

contact BSIS and ask to make a complaint against the company

[pullnshoot25]

this was in California right

go to http://www.bsis.ca.gov/

unless you where on Private Property or they witnessed you commiting a crime...you can proscute them for false arrest and sue in civil court

This was private property, the North County Fair (mall). Does that negate everything or what?

[ElvenSoul]

well if on private property and they have it posted no firearms are allowed and all that...then it's more likely to fall in their favor...did you see any signs?

did they ask you first to leave?

[kermit315]

I think it is different with private property open to the public....much like the walmart greeters that try to make you show your receipt before you can leave the store. they can say anything they want, but they have no legal leg to stand on.

somebody correct me if I am wrong, I think I remember this coming up back when there were lots of threads about the walmart thing.

[pullnshoot25]

well if on private property and they have it posted no firearms are allowed and all that...then it's more likely to fall in their favor...did you see any signs?

did they ask you first to leave?

There are no signs posted saying no firearms.

There is a very small notice at the concierge desk that says no firearms allowed.

I did call and they said it was OK

They did not ask me to leave, I was surrounded and was told "for our safety and your own, please make no sudden movements"

[ElvenSoul]

Even if they had you nailed to rights...contact the BSIS...there is nothing worse for a security company to fear...than a BSIS investigaton...what with fines and lic restrictions....I guarantee they must have a few code violations...never seen a company that was 100% up to snuff

[CSDGuy]

This was private property, the North County Fair (mall). Does that negate everything or what?

Doesn't matter. Private property or not, unless someone is being detained under the Merchant Rule, private persons are NOT allowed to detain another person. Generally, you must either arrest or let someone go. Those security guards arrested you and didn't tell you why they were arresting you... and there's no law that they'd be arresting you for, therefore they were committing an unlawful arrest and are subject to arrest and prosecution themselves AND they're open to a civil suit...

[CSDGuy]

There are no signs posted saying no firearms.

There is a very small notice at the concierge desk that says no firearms allowed.

I did call and they said it was OK

They did not ask me to leave, I was surrounded and was told "for our safety and your own, please make no sudden movements"

Since they didn't ask you to leave, you can not be arrested for trespass.

[jazman]

Did they physically restrain you? If not, why didn't you just leave?
Just my opinion, but seems a silly thing to bring suit about. As much as you OC it may be smart to wait and pick a better battle. Once you are in this one what happens when something more serious happens on one of your OC soirees? Do you want to have multiple legal battles going in the midst of being in college, and what happens if you or your lawyer makes a mistake and you lose the case and damages? Or more probably, the judge dismisses the whole thing and you are on the hook for $10K or so in legal fees?