Calling all security guards

[ElvenSoul]

There are no signs posted saying no firearms.

There is a very small notice at the concierge desk that says no firearms allowed.

I did call and they said it was OK

They did not ask me to leave, I was surrounded and was told "for our safety and your own, please make no sudden movements"

the above is pretty much a clear case of unlawful detainment...where they carrying firearms?

[CSDGuy]

Even if they had you nailed to rights...contact the BSIS...there is nothing worse for a security company to fear...than a BSIS investigaton...what with fines and lic restrictions....I guarantee they must have a few code violations...never seen a company that was 100% up to snuff

+1 I'd have to agree. Contact the BSIS.

[ElvenSoul]

I think it is different with private property open to the public....much like the walmart greeters that try to make you show your receipt before you can leave the store. they can say anything they want, but they have no legal leg to stand on.

somebody correct me if I am wrong, I think I remember this coming up back when there were lots of threads about the walmart thing.

Uhhh no...private property is still private property...but it must be marked...they must have signs and all that

There are special regulations allowing retail merchants to detain in this state...can't quite remember how it all goes...don't work in the retail area myself....

But beware the Walmart Greeter...That old lady may have more power than you think to detain private citizens while they are on Store Property

[pullnshoot25]

Did they physically restrain you? If not, why didn't you just leave?
Just my opinion, but seems a silly thing to bring suit about. As much as you OC it may be smart to wait and pick a better battle. Once you are in this one what happens when something more serious happens on one of your OC soirees? Do you want to have multiple legal battles going in the midst of being in college, and what happens if you or your lawyer makes a mistake and you lose the case and damages? Or more probably, the judge dismisses the whole thing and you are on the hook for $10K or so in legal fees?

3 guys that weighed in excess of 190lbs surrounded me and told me not to move. Considering the fact that I am pretty sure if I moved they weren't going to beg me to sit back down, I can only assume they were going to tackle me. I may have bowstaff skills, but I am not taking on 3 guards plus another 2 in backup to get on with my legal life.

All these things are being considered at the moment. Just gauging what I can do.

[pullnshoot25]

the above is pretty much a clear case of unlawful detainment...where they carrying firearms?

They were not carrying. I don't even know if they were carrying pepper spray or anything.

Isn't OC spray another name for pepper spray? If so, that is kinda funny

[kermit315]

Like I said, this was hashed out before, and it came down to "they can ask you to stop, but you are under no requirement to do so".

walmart greeter trying to "detain" you to force you to show a receipt for stuff you purchased doesnt meet reasonable suspicion, and is not grounds to detain under merchant rule. I highly doubt they have more "power" than a security guard, which as has been stated here, is next to nothing anyway.

[pullnshoot25]

Like I said, this was hashed out before, and it came down to "they can ask you to stop, but you are under no requirement to do so".

walmart greeter trying to "detain" you to force you to show a receipt for stuff you purchased doesnt meet reasonable suspicion, and is not grounds to detain under merchant rule. I highly doubt they have more "power" than a security guard, which as has been stated here, is next to nothing anyway.

Wish I had known sooner, it would have been better. This would be really different had I had a voice recorder with me. Hindsight is 20/20 though and I have one now.

[Matt C]

3 guys that weighed in excess of 190lbs surrounded me and told me not to move. Considering the fact that I am pretty sure if I moved they weren't going to beg me to sit back down, I can only assume they were going to tackle me. I may have bowstaff skills, but I am not taking on 3 guards plus another 2 in backup to get on with my legal life.

You would have had a better case(actual damages) if you had.

[gun toting monkeyboy]

Ok, so when are we doing an UOC invasion of the North County Faire food court? Everybody brings toys and recorders. We go in, get food, and have our UOC lunch there in the middle of everything. Even warn the cops ahead of time, so when the guys from the Mall Security Directorate call them, they don't come in looking for an armed mob.

-Mb

[dfletcher]

OK, looking into it further is making me want to look into retaining a lawyer. Anyone know a good lawyer down in SD and how I go about doing all of this? What is the average cost?

This started out as a simple request for information and a possible apology. Now they upped the ante.

I think any civil attorney is going to want to know how you were damaged (as in, how much $$$ can he make off your case) and why, given the "no firearms" sign you carried anyway. I know you were told it was OK and that might be a good response (good luck getting that person to tell the truth) but I tend to go with what's in writing, not just oral.

I did a bit of checking at BSIS, and you'll want to find out if this company has a current PPO and do the guards have current cards - no to either one could be helpful. If you go to their office the PPO and owner's name is probably posted on the wall. Get the info then check through the BSIS website.

Then you'll want to know if the guards completed all state mandated testing and does the company specifically inform their employees to not detain? Are there post instructions that clearly define their duties at this job site? Is there a specific amount of training these guys get for the job site, did they complete it and is it documented?

BTW, if the company's documentation says "do not detain" and these guys did anyway I presume they'll fire the guards for violating company policy. Not sure how that impacts your interest.

Another route - these guys are contracted out to the mall owners, yes? Go after the mall owners and the guard company may be contractually obligated to indemnify their client. In effect, if the client (mall owner) has to shell out $3,000.00 for attorneys PLUS pay a $5,000.00 or so settlement (really a very small case) the guard company may be required to cover that cost. Even if they do not by contract, you could probably get a few grand by taking that approach - the guard company may pay that just to have you leave their client alone.

While I agree Small Claims can be alot of promise and no result, you may want to start a suit simply for the purpose of having the guard company pay you to go away & not bother their client.

[pullnshoot25]

I think any civil attorney is going to want to know how you were damaged (as in, how much $$$ can he make off your case) and why, given the "no firearms" sign you carried anyway. I know you were told it was OK and that might be a good response (good luck getting that person to tell the truth) but I tend to go with what's in writing, not just oral.

I did a bit of checking at BSIS, and you'll want to find out if this company has a current PPO and do the guards have current cards - no to either one could be helpful. If you go to their office the PPO and owner's name is probably posted on the wall. Get the info then check through the BSIS website.

Then you'll want to know if the guards completed all state mandated testing and does the company specifically inform their employees to not detain? Are there post instructions that clearly define their duties at this job site? Is there a specific amount of training these guys get for the job site, did they complete it and is it documented?

BTW, if the company's documentation says "do not detain" and these guys did anyway I presume they'll fire the guards for violating company policy. Not sure how that impacts your interest.

Another route - these guys are contracted out to the mall owners, yes? Go after the mall owners and the guard company may be contractually obligated to indemnify their client. In effect, if the client (mall owner) has to shell out $3,000.00 for attorneys PLUS pay a $5,000.00 or so settlement (really a very small case) the guard company may be required to cover that cost. Even if they do not by contract, you could probably get a few grand by taking that approach - the guard company may pay that just to have you leave their client alone.

While I agree Small Claims can be alot of promise and no result, you may want to start a suit simply for the purpose of having the guard company pay you to go away & not bother their client.

There is no visible sign stating no firearms/weapons. It is only posted under clear plastic at the concierge desk in size 10 font and is the 4th item on the list of 10 rules or so. It is called the "Courtesy Notice" or something like that. There is only one concierge desk at the mall and it is at one end on the first floor, the opposite of where I entered.

LAME!

[devildog999]

They actually can detain, for suspected theft and for suspected unauthorized recording of copyrighted films, and I think also for library book theft, but of course that's theft as well.

I don't want to go into details, but I have actually sued over this before, and all I can say it DON'T use small claims court. It's a joke.

The law is on your side here, and if you sue them you can issue subpoenas, but they will most likely claim the film was deleted/erased.

Good luck.

NO, they cannot. Only LEOs' can detain. Citizens can only arrest! A security guard has NO more power than a citizen. When a security guard "detains" you, he is arresting you according to the law.

[devildog999]

Uhhh no...private property is still private property...but it must be marked...they must have signs and all that

There are special regulations allowing retail merchants to detain in this state...can't quite remember how it all goes...don't work in the retail area myself....

But beware the Walmart Greeter...That old lady may have more power than you think to detain private citizens while they are on Store Property

I work security at Wal*Mart. The greeters cannot do anything. You can walk out of the store with a TV you did not pay for and when they ask for a receipt, you can just walk past them and ignore. Greeters are not allowed to make you show a receipt and they can't even touch your bag. The LP (loss prevention) are the ones that can arrest you. Even though they call it detain, it is still arrest (though I cold be wrong about LP, don't know anything about the merchant thingy majig). That is why they get sued alot.

[Matt C]

NO, they cannot. Only LEOs' can detain. Citizens can only arrest! A security guard has NO more power than a citizen. When a security guard "detains" you, he is arresting you according to the law.

WRONG.

490.5 PC
Anyone who is:

"the owner or employee, lessee, cosigner, operator agent or a person authorized by the owner or by the person in lawful possession of property, may detain for investigation (a reasonable length of time), whom they have probable cause to believe is attempting to take or has unlawfully taken merchandise"

I know, because I did this stuff for a living at one point.

[Decoligny]

They were not carrying. I don't even know if they were carrying pepper spray or anything.

Isn't OC spray another name for pepper spray? If so, that is kinda funny

Yes OC spray is pepper spray. OC is the abbreviation for Oleo Capsicum. Oleo because it is in a vegatable oil base, and Capsicum is the name of the chemical that they extract from the peppers that causes the burning.