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Something I Think Might Be a Good Change...

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  • -hanko
    CGN/CGSSA Contributor
    CGN Contributor
    • Jul 2002
    • 14174

    Something I Think Might Be a Good Change...

    ...in the For Sale section.
    This from ar15.com...It's basically why I drop way too much money there v. here. Comments??


    NEW WELCHING RULE TO GO INTO EFFECT

    I'll monkey around with this more before I post it as a rule but this is the general idea of the new EE welching rule-I suspect I'll keep the old language, except maybe say "you risk your account being locked"; I'll fiddle around with it more tomorrow but this is pretty much what I suspect is going to happen

    WELCHING

    Sellers: Be 100% sure that you want to sell the item and are satisfied with the selling price. If you back out of a deal AFTER you've agreed to sell it to a particular buyer, your account will be locked.

    Buyers: Be 100% sure that you can financially afford to purchase an item before offering to do so. If you back out of a deal AFTER you've agreed to buy from a particular seller, your account will be locked.

    then something like the following will be added:

    On a first time welch the welcher (will probably change that to something like "the party not following through with the agreement") will have his account locked for 72 hours and will receive negative feedback from Staff.

    On a second welch the welcher will receive a permanent lock.

    Once the parties have agreed to a sale and the method of payment, payment must be made, whether mailed or paid by paypal etc within 48 hours and confirmation of payment must be forwarded to the seller by the buyer. The parties may alter this term by mutual agreement in writing and confirmed by e mail.

    Once payment is received the seller must ship non firearms within 48 hours. Firearms must be shipped within five days of receipt of payment. The parties may alter this term by mutual agreement in writing and confirmation by e mail.

    If the seller believes that the buyer has not made timely payment he must start a thread in EE feedback and receive permission from an EE moderator or staff to relist the item for sale, or to sell it to someone else. The Staff or Moderator who confirms that the item may be sold to someone else is to post in the EE feedback thread. The seller may wish to e mail or IM an EE staff or moderator to bring to their attention that the seller wishes to relist the item.

    If the seller does not ship in a timely manner he risks losing his Equipment Exchange privileges in addition to negative feedback.

    This is not a rule, but in the past the moderators have spent a lot of time trying to cajole people into following through with deals. I think we are going to stop doing that. No more "My wife said I can't buy that gun" then we hold up the seller while we spend days trying to talk you into paying for the gun you agreed to buy.

    There are exceptions that the moderators may find are extenuating circumstances, such as some unforeseen personal tragedy. Your girlfriend forgetting to mail the check is not an unforeseen personal tragedy. Agreeing to buy a $ 2000 gun when you have $ 2200 dollars in the bank and your car breaks down is not an unforeseen personal tragedy.
    True wealth is time. Time to enjoy life.

    Life's journey is not to arrive safely in a well preserved body, but rather to slide in sideways, totally worn out, shouting "holy schit...what a ride"!!

    Heaven goes by favor. If it went by merit, you would stay out and your dog would go in. Mark Twain

    A man's soul can be judged by the way he treats his dog. Charles Doran
  • #2
    Mitch
    Mostly Harmless
    CGN Contributor - Lifetime
    • Mar 2008
    • 6574

    I don't use the Marketplace much but I do get the strong impression it is not exactly suffering from a deficit of rules.

    Originally posted by -hanko
    This is not a rule, but in the past the moderators have spent a lot of time trying to cajole people into following through with deals. I think we are going to stop doing that. No more "My wife said I can't buy that gun" then we hold up the seller while we spend days trying to talk you into paying for the gun you agreed to buy.
    Why do the weenies of Arfcom need so much help from the mods in negotiating deals between members? I can't imagine why a third party should involve itself in a dispute like that.
    Last edited by Mitch; 04-17-2015, 3:55 PM.
    Originally posted by cockedandglocked
    Getting called a DOJ shill has become a rite of passage around here. I've certainly been called that more than once - I've even seen Kes get called that. I haven't seen Red-O get called that yet, which is very suspicious to me, and means he's probably a DOJ shill.

    Comment

    • #3
      RTE
      Senior Member
      • May 2009
      • 1948

      I don't pick up much from the classifieds but I think it would be a GREAT idea if not too time consuming for the Mods.

      The first ammo deal after joining here, was a guy that welched on the deal....wanted more money after the sale.

      Comment

      • #4
        SB1964
        Veteran Member
        • Mar 2012
        • 4876

        How are you gonna get people to be honest? You know, NOT exaggerate so much? I'll agree "welching" is crap, why focus on sellers? Is this the next Ebay? How about the buyers that welch, or change their mind. What about the people that don't leave iTrader?

        I say leave it alone. You won't change people.
        Yes I took the pic, no I didn't go swimming!

        Comment

        • #5
          -hanko
          CGN/CGSSA Contributor
          CGN Contributor
          • Jul 2002
          • 14174

          Originally posted by Mitch
          Why do the weenies of Arfcom need so much help from the mods in negotiating deals between members? I can't imagine why a third party should involve itself in a dispute like that.
          Perhaps because they feel that ethics are somewhat important? But that's only a guest. Arf has always had the ability to leave feedback on buyers and sellers beyond positive / neutral /negative.


          Originally posted by SB1964
          How are you gonna get people to be honest? You know, NOT exaggerate so much? I'll agree "welching" is crap, why focus on sellers? Is this the next Ebay? How about the buyers that welch, or change their mind. What about the people that don't leave iTrader?

          I say leave it alone. You won't change people.
          It appears their rules apply equally to both parties in the deal.

          iTrader is a joke.
          True wealth is time. Time to enjoy life.

          Life's journey is not to arrive safely in a well preserved body, but rather to slide in sideways, totally worn out, shouting "holy schit...what a ride"!!

          Heaven goes by favor. If it went by merit, you would stay out and your dog would go in. Mark Twain

          A man's soul can be judged by the way he treats his dog. Charles Doran

          Comment

          • #6
            Pinto
            Veteran Member
            • Jul 2007
            • 3171

            idgi - here we are on a site that the majority want smaller government, more independence and pride themselves on being able to take care of themselves. Yet here we have a call for more oversight and rules.

            What's wrong with taking care of your own **** and learning to deal or not on your own? I really don't want the mommy-mods wiping my nose and telling me it's all right if I let some schmuck take advantage of me. Or someone's daddy-mod telling me I hurt sonny's feelings when I told him no.

            If it's been a habit that you are often welched on, then it's a bigger problem than the mods can fix. Personally, I've had very few problems in the couple of deals I've done here. I say leave it alone.

            Comment

            • #7
              major burnout
              CGN/CGSSA Contributor
              CGN Contributor
              • Dec 2010
              • 3860

              All we need are a few more rules and then everyone will act right. Just a few more rules.
              Calguns- redacted more than Hillarys bengazi emails.

              Originally posted by rattlesnake_nm
              10/4 . Ranger pm'd me. I will chill on replying to insults with my own insults. Thanks for the heads up.
              Originally posted by RickD427
              In addition to all of the above, please note that it is illegal for you to offer an "Assault Weapon" for sale while you are in California, even if the weapon is restricted to sale out of the state.

              Comment

              • #8
                Fishslayer
                In Memoriam
                • Jan 2010
                • 13035

                Is this really a problem? I've made quite a few deals & only been welched on once...
                "He is your friend, your partner, your defender, your dog.
                You are his life, his love, his leader. He will be yours, faithful and true, to the last beat of his heart.
                You owe it to him to be worthy of such devotion."


                Originally Posted by JackRydden224
                I hope Ruger pays the extortion fees for the SR1911. I mean the gun is just as good if not better than a Les Baer.
                Originally posted by redcliff
                A Colt collector shooting Rugers is like Hugh Grant cheating on Elizabeth Hurley with a hooker.

                Comment

                • #9
                  someoneeasy
                  Senior Member
                  • Feb 2011
                  • 2372

                  the market place is a joke, people will do whatever they want. Like others have said, if you don't like it, don't buy. Leave it the way it is, we don't need more rules.

                  Comment

                  • #10
                    Mitch
                    Mostly Harmless
                    CGN Contributor - Lifetime
                    • Mar 2008
                    • 6574

                    Originally posted by -hanko
                    Perhaps because they feel that ethics are somewhat important?
                    I think ethics are important, too, but I don't feel the need to inveigle myself into disputes between grown adults.

                    One thing Arfcom does have that is pretty good: an entire subforum dedicated to shaming dubious marketplace behavior.
                    Originally posted by cockedandglocked
                    Getting called a DOJ shill has become a rite of passage around here. I've certainly been called that more than once - I've even seen Kes get called that. I haven't seen Red-O get called that yet, which is very suspicious to me, and means he's probably a DOJ shill.

                    Comment

                    • #11
                      Dano3467
                      Calguns Addict
                      • Mar 2013
                      • 7381

                      Do we really need more rules, & more regulation ?

                      Comment

                      • #12
                        Redneck Geek
                        Senior Member
                        • Jul 2012
                        • 1002

                        Originally posted by major burnout
                        All we need are a few more rules and then everyone will act right. Just a few more rules.
                        Right? Grow a pair and handle your business folks.
                        sigpic

                        Comment

                        • #13
                          desertrider
                          Senior Member
                          • Jul 2007
                          • 1464

                          Originally posted by Mitch

                          Why do the weenies of Arfcom need so much help from the mods in negotiating deals between members? I can't imagine why a third party should involve itself in a dispute like that.
                          I think it's numbers. Arf has a lot more traffic than calguns does. I would imagine that the number of welching incidents in reference to active users is the same as calguns, but when you consider the heavier traffic on that site, there are probably many more incidents.

                          Comment

                          • #14
                            Mitch
                            Mostly Harmless
                            CGN Contributor - Lifetime
                            • Mar 2008
                            • 6574

                            Originally posted by desertrider
                            I think it's numbers. Arf has a lot more traffic than calguns does. I would imagine that the number of welching incidents in reference to active users is the same as calguns, but when you consider the heavier traffic on that site, there are probably many more incidents.
                            That's a strong argument for Arfcom mods keeping their noses out of it.
                            Originally posted by cockedandglocked
                            Getting called a DOJ shill has become a rite of passage around here. I've certainly been called that more than once - I've even seen Kes get called that. I haven't seen Red-O get called that yet, which is very suspicious to me, and means he's probably a DOJ shill.

                            Comment

                            • #15
                              desertrider
                              Senior Member
                              • Jul 2007
                              • 1464

                              Originally posted by Mitch
                              That's a strong argument for Arfcom mods keeping their noses out of it.
                              Agreed, but on the flipside they probably get a lot of complaints from members getting what they perceive as being the short end of the stick on the deal.

                              Maybe they've had one too many whiners and now there's a rule?

                              Comment

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