FDA Documents Showing Myocarditis in Boys, Vaccine vs Covid. Shocking.

[anthonyca]

What do you think of this short video?

https://www.bitchute.com/video/R0hI5cwdEDaY/

[anthonyca]

I've never claimed to be a medical doctor of any sort. I can only go by medical advice and publications.

Nothing I've seen in the literature anywhere says to suspect a high casualty rate, on a five year timetable or any timetable, from pericarditis and myocarditis induced by vaccination. Zero? No. I've found evidence of two (exactly two!) cases of fulminant myocarditis thought to be caused by vaccination. But certainly a very low number, lower in fact than anaphylaxis.



That's fine, and that belief is worth considering, but are you actually asserting that any significant percentage of them are expected to have long term problems? On what basis?

You said to "look up the 3 to 5 year survival rates." I did that, and the risk wasn't all that high. What sources did you expect me to find?

What do you think of this video?

https://www.bitchute.com/video/R0hI5cwdEDaY/

[SmokeTheClay]

The haters don't bother me. I merely find it puzzling in what should be a sober and evidence-driven discussion.

I don't know of any follow-up on the 15 patients mentioned in the MMWR piece. With respect to the general group, however, every paper is treating this like "mild" myocarditis that almost always ends with "full recovery," not just hospital discharge. What I'm reading suggests that a number of diagnostic tests are applied, and if these all come back without abnormality, the patient is not expected to have any debilitation or long-term risk.

One of the most thorough papers I've found on the topic is this one, covering a lot of ground with respect to other studies, relative risk factors, mechanisms, and prognosis. Nothing here is particularly scary to me, especially in comparison to virally-induced myocarditis or other problems, but as always risk tolerance is a personal thing.

In other words, there are enough cases of myocarditis to detail studies about the outcomes. Sounds as though myocarditis is NOT rare

[as_rocketman]

In other words, there are enough cases of myocarditis to detail studies about the outcomes. Sounds as though myocarditis is NOT rare

I answered that upthread. Specific to adolescent males, second dose of vaccination appears to result in 7x background rates. It's rare, but not impossibly rare -- too rare to sense in a trial of thousands, but shows up reliably in a rollout to millions.

And yes, thus far the outcomes are looking quite good overall.

[SmokeTheClay]

I answered that upthread. Specific to adolescent males, second dose of vaccination appears to result in 7x background rates. It's rare, but not impossibly rare -- too rare to sense in a trial of thousands, but shows up reliably in a rollout to millions.

And yes, thus far the outcomes are looking quite good overall.

Considering they have not been tracking specific individuals, define reliably. Is it more or less than China's Covid stats, and by how much

[Epaphroditus]

"Mild myocarditis" that's rich.

[UCT]

What, you didn't read it? Here:


Quote:
Originally Posted by Bozkurt et al.
Another important potential mechanism for myocarditis is molecular mimicry between the spike protein of SARS-CoV-2 and self-antigens. Antibodies against SARS-CoV-2 spike glycoproteins have been experimentally shown to cross-react with structurally similar human peptide protein sequences, including α-myosin. However, severe adverse events or autoimmune reactions have been very rare. Although COVID-19 vaccination does not appear to provoke de novo immune-mediated adverse events, it is possible that it may trigger preexisting dysregulated pathways in certain individuals with predisposition, resulting in a polyclonal B-cell expansion, immune complex formation, and inflammation.


It's not a closed subject, but with so many millions of doses in the field, we should be seeing a signal by now -- both in gross presentation and in molecular mechanics. Autoimmunity is well down the list of possible causes for vaccine-induced myocarditis, although again, these events are so rare that it'll be difficult to pin down.

I am sorry you don't understand what you are posting.

"Another important potential mechanism for myocarditis is molecular mimicry between the spike protein of SARS-CoV-2 and self-antigens. Antibodies against SARS-CoV-2 spike glycoproteins have been experimentally shown to cross-react with structurally similar human peptide protein sequences, including α-myosin"
is saying that antibodies against that the spike protein also attack heart muscle, i.e. it is an autoimmune response against the person's heart. That is similar to what happens with rheumatic fever. It is a potentially lifelong, life shortening condition.

And autoimmune diseases typically manifest long after the initiating factor has terminated.

[as_rocketman]

I am sorry you don't understand what you are posting.

I do, though. You just didn't follow it to its logical conclusion.

"Another important potential mechanism for myocarditis is molecular mimicry between the spike protein of SARS-CoV-2 and self-antigens. Antibodies against SARS-CoV-2 spike glycoproteins have been experimentally shown to cross-react with structurally similar human peptide protein sequences, including α-myosin"
is saying that antibodies against that the spike protein also attack heart muscle, i.e. it is an autoimmune response against the person's heart. That is similar to what happens with rheumatic fever. It is a potentially lifelong, life shortening condition.

And autoimmune diseases typically manifest long after the initiating factor has terminated.

Yes, that's what it means. The author is identifying a theoretical concern, and then remarking that it isn't happening. What the survey suggests instead, because vaccination isn't leading to an autoimmune disease directly, is that it's triggering existing immune disregulation, thereby potentially triggering individuals who would be prone to myocarditis in the first place.

Another way we can verify this is by looking at the incidence of PASC in the vaccinated population. PASC is now tentatively understood to be an autoimmune effect resulting after infection, among individuals with a defective response. Interestingly, we see lower rates among vaccinated individuals, and what evidence we have continues to suggest that vaccination is often effective against PASC. Neither result is predicted if the vaccine epitope produces an autoimmune response.

[KSH]

This is pointless, if real data and studies were being done and truthfully published there would be a discussion worth having.

Until then, roll the dice. Time will tell. No one will predict it from here.

That's the only fact.
I've chosen my side, I'm sure most have as well.

[BT JUSTICE]

It might be worth the risk if covid had a higher mortality rate, but it doesn't, so its not.

Then it might be worth the risk if it actually kept you from getting covid, dying from covid, or transmitting it to grandma. But it doesn't, so it isn't. I can't believe how many parents are lining up to take this risk on their kids.

No possibility of heart problems justify the risk for my kids when virtue signaling is the only possible upshot.

[Fate]

It might be worth the risk if covid had a higher mortality rate, but it doesn't, so its not.

Then it might be worth the risk if it actually kept you from getting covid, dying from covid, or transmitting it to grandma. But it doesn't, so it isn't. I can't believe how many parents are lining up to take this risk on their kids.

No possibility of heart problems justify the risk for my kids when virtue signaling is the only possible upshot.

[SmokeTheClay]

This is pointless, if real data and studies were being done and truthfully published there would be a discussion worth having.

Until then, roll the dice. Time will tell. No one will predict it from here.

That's the only fact.
I've chosen my side, I'm sure most have as well.

Yep, will he define reliably or ignore that question?

I answered that upthread. Specific to adolescent males, second dose of vaccination appears to result in 7x background rates. It's rare, but not impossibly rare -- too rare to sense in a trial of thousands, but shows up reliably in a rollout to millions.

And yes, thus far the outcomes are looking quite good overall.

[Wherryj]

Well, the MSM spin machine is getting up to speed in an attempt to get ahead of the story in case they aren't able to hide these issues in the future:


Ok now, I have to give them credit for this one. They managed to suggest a link between a heart attack surge in the very young and their cherished climate change agenda.

[bigbossman]

You obviously don't treat myocarditis. Even with fatal cases, the initial course if often "relatively benign". Patients are typically hospitalized rather briefly and appear to recover. It is over the next few years that things show a serious decline.

I've shown the myocarditis data to several of our best cardiologists and they are dreading seeing "the five year data". You can't decide that inflammatory myocarditis is "mild" based upon "only being admitted for 3 days", etc. It is the long term course that will determine how serious the inflammation was.

^^^^ An actual M.D., with actual experience, relating what he's seeing and presenting to actual cardiologists (who express real concerns).

I've never claimed to be a medical doctor of any sort. I can only go by medical advice and publications.

Nothing I've seen in the literature anywhere says to suspect a high casualty rate, on a five year timetable or any timetable, from pericarditis and myocarditis induced by vaccination.

^^^^ Someone that ignores an actual M.D., with actual experience, relating what he's seeing and presenting to actual cardiologists (who express real concerns), in favor of his own "literature" searches.

[SmokeTheClay]

Well, the MSM spin machine is getting up to speed in an attempt to get ahead of the story in case they aren't able to hide these issues in the future:


Ok now, I have to give them credit for this one. They managed to suggest a link between a heart attack surge in the very young and their cherished climate change agenda.

LOL. That's a good one. They probably have their agendas listed on cards and just tossed 2 in the pot and decided that's how they'd write it up. Of course climate change probably makes up 40% of the cards