FDA Documents Showing Myocarditis in Boys, Vaccine vs Covid. Shocking.

[anthonyca]

This is for just one adverse reaction. Look up the 3 to 5 year mortality rate for myocarditis, it's unbelievable.

I can't get the picture to insert from my phone so please see the attachment.

VRBPAC-10.26.21-Meeting-Presentation-Benefits-Risks-of-Vaccine-for-Ages-5-11-Years.pdf

[sd_shooter]

Seems like a complete toss-up to me. Personally since my entire family has already had covid with no residual ailments, I'd rather chug a pint of fresh covid juice than risk getting heart disease from the vax.

(Pretty sure those 'prevented cases' will be highlighted by the tyrannical government)

[anthonyca]

Seems like a complete toss-up to me. Personally since my entire family has already had covid with no residual ailments, I'd rather chug a pint of fresh covid juice than risk getting heart disease from the vax.

(Pretty sure those 'prevented cases' will be highlighted by the tyrannical government)

The numbers and most likely much higher. Just like 95% efficacy, can't spread it, long lasting vaccine immunity, just 2 shots etc.

[as_rocketman]

This is for just one adverse reaction. Look up the 3 to 5 year mortality rate for myocarditis, it's unbelievable.

This is turning into another case of statistics evolving into an urban legend. Myocarditis on the whole is nowhere near a 50% mortality rate at five years -- that only applies to a rare subset of myocarditis known as fulminant myocarditis.

We have many millions of doses in adolescent males in the field, and we do not have scads of dead teenagers as a result. The actual statistics are very good:

As of June 11, 2021, approximately 296 million doses of mRNA COVID-19 vaccines had been administered in the United States, with 52 million administered to persons aged 12–29 years; of these, 30 million were first and 22 million were second doses. Within the Vaccine Adverse Event Reporting System (VAERS) (4), the national vaccine safety passive monitoring system, 1,226 reports of myocarditis after mRNA vaccination were received during December 29, 2020–June 11, 2021.

[...]

Informed by early reports, CDC prioritized rapid review of myocarditis in persons aged <30 years reported during May 1–June 11, 2021; the 484 patient records in this subset were evaluated by physicians at CDC, and several reports were also reviewed with Clinical Immunization Safety Assessment Project investigators, including cardiologists. At the time of this report, 323 of these 484 cases were determined to meet criteria in CDC’s case definitions for myocarditis, pericarditis, or myopericarditis by provider interview or medical record review (Table 1). The median age of the 323 patients meeting CDC’s case definitions was 19 years (range = 12−29 years); 291 were male, and 32 were female. The median interval from vaccination to symptom onset was 2 days (range = 0−40 days); 92% of patients experienced onset of symptoms within 7 days of vaccination. Of the 323 persons meeting CDC’s case definitions, 309 (96%) were hospitalized. Acute clinical courses were generally mild; among 304 hospitalized patients with known clinical outcomes, 95% had been discharged at time of review, and none had died.

This is worthy of attention, but it is nowhere near the death sentence some make it out to be.

[NaClAddict]

ASR, I don’t bring the hate towards you some do. I would like to see some information on the effects of myocarditis post hospitalization. Being discharged is good but doesn’t meant that there aren’t lasting health issues. Also, what is the state of the 15 patients still hospitalized?

[as_rocketman]

The haters don't bother me. I merely find it puzzling in what should be a sober and evidence-driven discussion.

I don't know of any follow-up on the 15 patients mentioned in the MMWR piece. With respect to the general group, however, every paper is treating this like "mild" myocarditis that almost always ends with "full recovery," not just hospital discharge. What I'm reading suggests that a number of diagnostic tests are applied, and if these all come back without abnormality, the patient is not expected to have any debilitation or long-term risk.

One of the most thorough papers I've found on the topic is this one, covering a lot of ground with respect to other studies, relative risk factors, mechanisms, and prognosis. Nothing here is particularly scary to me, especially in comparison to virally-induced myocarditis or other problems, but as always risk tolerance is a personal thing.

[turbolxstang]

Totally worth the risk

[UCT]

The problem is we don't know why people are getting myocarditis. If it is autoimmune, there are going to be problems down the line. It isn't just going to go away and not come back but will come back repeatedly causing some damage each time it does.

[as_rocketman]

The problem is we don't know why people are getting myocarditis. If it is autoimmune, there are going to be problems down the line. It isn't just going to go away and not come back but will come back repeatedly causing some damage each time it does.

The paper I cited above treats this explicitly, and suggests that there is no autoimmune mechanism in vaccine-induced myocarditis. We do see autoimmune effects in PASC, though, and I imagine the same might be true for chronic myocarditis following vaccination -- but except for these specific cases, the evidence points against this.

[deerdeerdeer]

The paper I cited above treats this explicitly, and suggests that there is no autoimmune mechanism in vaccine-induced myocarditis. We do see autoimmune effects in PASC, though, and I imagine the same might be true for chronic myocarditis following vaccination -- but except for these specific cases, the evidence points against this.

https://youtu.be/H7inaTiDKaU

Kyle the pro mountain biker, has it all confirmed that it is the vaccine via science.

[UCT]

The paper I cited above treats this explicitly, and suggests that there is no autoimmune mechanism in vaccine-induced myocarditis. We do see autoimmune effects in PASC, though, and I imagine the same might be true for chronic myocarditis following vaccination -- but except for these specific cases, the evidence points against this.

Quote your cite. Like this.

"Although the mechanisms for development of myocarditis are not clear, molecular mimicry between the spike protein of severe acute respiratory syndrome coronavirus-2 (SARS-CoV-2) and self-antigens, trigger of preexisting dysregulated immune pathways in certain individuals, immune response to mRNA, and activation of immunologic pathways, and dysregulated cytokine expression have been proposed."

https://www.ahajournals.org/doi/10.1161/CIRCULATIONAHA.121.056135

[theLBC]

Seems like a complete toss-up to me. Personally since my entire family has already had covid with no residual ailments, I'd rather chug a pint of fresh covid juice than risk getting heart disease from the vax.

(Pretty sure those 'prevented cases' will be highlighted by the tyrannical government)

i like how they guess at "prevented covid cases" as though they know, without having a clue how many already had covid, with or without any symptoms.
a study that tested for covid antibodies in over 100k germans waiting to get vaccinated found 40% of them already had the coof and didn't know it.

[as_rocketman]

Quote your cite. Like this.

"Although the mechanisms for development of myocarditis are not clear, molecular mimicry between the spike protein of severe acute respiratory syndrome coronavirus-2 (SARS-CoV-2) and self-antigens, trigger of preexisting dysregulated immune pathways in certain individuals, immune response to mRNA, and activation of immunologic pathways, and dysregulated cytokine expression have been proposed."

https://www.ahajournals.org/doi/10.1...AHA.121.056135

What, you didn't read it? Here:

Another important potential mechanism for myocarditis is molecular mimicry between the spike protein of SARS-CoV-2 and self-antigens. Antibodies against SARS-CoV-2 spike glycoproteins have been experimentally shown to cross-react with structurally similar human peptide protein sequences, including α-myosin. However, severe adverse events or autoimmune reactions have been very rare. Although COVID-19 vaccination does not appear to provoke de novo immune-mediated adverse events, it is possible that it may trigger preexisting dysregulated pathways in certain individuals with predisposition, resulting in a polyclonal B-cell expansion, immune complex formation, and inflammation.

It's not a closed subject, but with so many millions of doses in the field, we should be seeing a signal by now -- both in gross presentation and in molecular mechanics. Autoimmunity is well down the list of possible causes for vaccine-induced myocarditis, although again, these events are so rare that it'll be difficult to pin down.

[Wherryj]

This is turning into another case of statistics evolving into an urban legend. Myocarditis on the whole is nowhere near a 50% mortality rate at five years -- that only applies to a rare subset of myocarditis known as fulminant myocarditis.

We have many millions of doses in adolescent males in the field, and we do not have scads of dead teenagers as a result. The actual statistics are very good:



This is worthy of attention, but it is nowhere near the death sentence some make it out to be.

You obviously don't treat myocarditis. Even with fatal cases, the initial course if often "relatively benign". Patients are typically hospitalized rather briefly and appear to recover. It is over the next few years that things show a serious decline.

I've shown the myocarditis data to several of our best cardiologists and they are dreading seeing "the five year data". You can't decide that inflammatory myocarditis is "mild" based upon "only being admitted for 3 days", etc. It is the long term course that will determine how serious the inflammation was.

[as_rocketman]

You obviously don't treat myocarditis. Even with fatal cases, the initial course if often "relatively benign". Patients are typically hospitalized rather briefly and appear to recover. It is over the next few years that things show a serious decline.

I've never claimed to be a medical doctor of any sort. I can only go by medical advice and publications.

Nothing I've seen in the literature anywhere says to suspect a high casualty rate, on a five year timetable or any timetable, from pericarditis and myocarditis induced by vaccination. Zero? No. I've found evidence of two (exactly two!) cases of fulminant myocarditis thought to be caused by vaccination. But certainly a very low number, lower in fact than anaphylaxis.

I've shown the myocarditis data to several of our best cardiologists and they are dreading seeing "the five year data". You can't decide that inflammatory myocarditis is "mild" based upon "only being admitted for 3 days", etc. It is the long term course that will determine how serious the inflammation was.

That's fine, and that belief is worth considering, but are you actually asserting that any significant percentage of them are expected to have long term problems? On what basis?

You said to "look up the 3 to 5 year survival rates." I did that, and the risk wasn't all that high. What sources did you expect me to find?