We Predicted It Would Come To This - Coerced Consent Is Almost Here

[TrappedinCalifornia]

This is a really slippery slope that could foreshadow a "mark" in order to buy or sell, etc.

I don't necessarily believe that the vaccines are the "Mark." I'd be more prone to believe that they are, as you suggest, a 'foreshadowing' of it. Put another way, they are part of a 'necessary infrastructure' which will have to be put into place first. But, that is all part of what's happening in going from "informed" consent to "coerced" consent.

They have to muddle/mix the messages so that no one knows who/what to rely on and will, instead, simply place their trust in... God?... the Devil?... Government?... Themselves?

The problem? For many, depending on the perspective, God/the Devil is synonymous with "Government." The Left sees Government as, in many respects, the equivalent of "God;" i.e., the 'solution' and what one bears allegiance, faith, and fealty to. The Right sees Government, in some respects, as the handmaiden of the Devil, particularly when the Left is in power and, as Reagan famously stated...



Many Christians believe that God uses political leaders/Government to His own ends, regardless of whether they oppose or support Him. They feel that one should not openly oppose Government in that to do so is to stand in opposition to God's plan... Proverbs 21:1 & 2...

The king's heart is in the hand of the Lord, as the rivers of water: he turneth it whithersoever he will.

2 Every way of a man is right in his own eyes: but the Lord pondereth the hearts.

That the proper path is to pray for God's intercession with the political leaders... 1 Timothy 2:1 - 3...

I exhort therefore, that, first of all, supplications, prayers, intercessions, and giving of thanks, be made for all men;

2 For kings, and for all that are in authority; that we may lead a quiet and peaceable life in all godliness and honesty.

3 For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Saviour...

Romans 13 kinda sums it up...

Let every soul be subject unto the higher powers. For there is no power but of God: the powers that be are ordained of God.

2 Whosoever therefore resisteth the power, resisteth the ordinance of God: and they that resist shall receive to themselves damnation...

11 And that, knowing the time, that now it is high time to awake out of sleep: for now is our salvation nearer than when we believed...

14 But put ye on the Lord Jesus Christ, and make not provision for the flesh, to fulfil the lusts thereof.

Others see it differently and point to their own Biblical passages, not to mention the Founders, and declare that the Tree of Liberty requires occasional 'watering.'

Either way, it becomes a personal choice based on what you believe. The trick is in determining what you believe and why you believe it. Remember Proverbs 1:7...

7 The fear of the Lord is the beginning of knowledge: but fools despise wisdom and instruction.

Therein lies the problem. In the search for knowledge to determine what we believe, we are being stymied.

As an example, from yesterday... Vaccination may provide more protection than COVID-19 natural immunity, CDC study finds

That's the headline. Yet, a substantial portion of the piece speaks to the 'limitations' of the study and how the headline might not actually be true across the board...

...Yet, the study has some limitations. First, the reinfections were confirmed using an antigen test and not the whole genome sequencing needed to confirm that the reinfection was caused by a distinct virus and was not related to the first infection. Second, vaccinated people are less likely to get tested for COVID-19, which could overestimate the relationship between lack of vaccination and reinfection.

Finally, the study has a relatively small sample size of only 738 patients. Smaller sample sizes are more prone to biased results. The study's authors noted that additional studies with “larger populations are warranted to support these findings.”

What is someone supposed to take from that beyond there still being unanswered questions?

This is the source of 'vaccine hesitancy' for many (maybe most) among those who remain unvaccinated. Not politics. Not a supposedly outdated 'clinging to religion and guns.' Not conspiracy theories. Instead, it is unanswered questions.

• Some of the questions cannot be answered; at least not this early in the process. Regardless of how one feels about Trump and Operation Warp Speed, the reality is there are reasons, other than 'Government red tape,' why vaccines typically take years to develop.
• Some of the questions aren't really worthy of discussion in that they are more conspiracy conjecture than actual 'fact based' theories.
• Some of the questions are willfully being deflected; which, itself, tends to bring more questions.
• Some of the questions are being answered, but those answers are more conjecture and opinion than based in actual Science, not to mention they are typically laced with "we hope" caveats. Thus, so-called 'misinformation' is not restricted simply to those who oppose the vaccines.

Thus, Government is doing what Government does, particularly when controlled by a Party overtly prone to viewing Government as "the solution." It is moving toward what are viewed as 'totalitarian' methods such as 'coercion.' Such coercion is where 'right/wrong' come into play, at least for me, given the society we are supposed to live in; not to mention the fact that if the vaccines were 'preventive' vaccines, then, if you are vaccinated, it shouldn't matter who and how many are not.

What we are being left with is intuition and/or...

Trust your instinct.

If you believe that the Holy Spirit speaks to us via intuition/instinct/conscience, then you're good to go. Just be prepared for Government not to accept that (carve out an exception/exemption) as 'sufficient.' Remember, Government doesn't do 'nuance' well and individual, personal choice is a very nuanced thing.

As I said on the other thread...

... It's about information they are supposed to have and I am supposed to have access to in relation to my decision making regarding taking the vaccine. They don't have it, yet, because they can't have it yet. As a result, they are asking for a 'leap of faith' and what/who they are asking me to have faith in does not inspire either the faith or the leap.

[LBDamned]

Navigate deceit.

[SanDiego619]

A slippery slope..? To what end…? I think the purpose is a way to
force “vaccine moochers” to participate in public everyday life.
To protect us all. That’s what the game is.

Are you joking? This has to be sarcasm. No one could believe what you typed.

We are from the government! Here to protect you all from the virus with a 99.97% survival rate! Take this experimental shot now!!!!! TO PROTECT US ALL FROM THE VIRUS THAT IS LIKE THE FLU!!!!!

[Creeping Incrementalism]

I just feel it could get to a point where if we want to travel anywhere, it will be required. Travel is something my wife and I love to do together. She wants it, but if I don't get it, that doesn't bode well for the marriage overall. So I will cross that bridge when it is time....

My friend got the vaccine just to travel, but the country he's traveling to is making him take a test regardless.

There may be other ways to get past vaccinations for travel with your employer, other exemptions you can use. Or any vaccine requirements may die away or not be enforced when this virus finally finishes burning through the population (the more infectious a virus is, the quicker everyone gets it once we stop socially distancing and the quicker we get past it).

I personally haven't flown since the added security post 9/11 as I just find it offensive in general. Even regular old metal detectors irritate me the way it seems I have to get an extra wanding or roll up my pant legs because the steel in my boots sets them off (this happened going in to jury duty). So far I've managed to avoid any negative effects on jobs I want, but it does create potential limitations.

[ibanezfoo]

You know, I like you and what you post on here, even own a couple of Ibanez basses, but that is something I really didn't need to know...

We must be prepared for all realities. We let the totalitarians rule our lives, eventually it comes to this...

[sbo80]

You mean like every other medical thing? How about we apply this logic to lazy fat*****es that give themselves diabetes or need a triple bypass for their blocked arteries? I pay for all those idiots' treatment too. I demand a refund. Make them pay for it themselves.
*I don't really think that, but if that's the logic they're going to push, they should know how it would play out.

[Den60]

You mean like every other medical thing? How about we apply this logic to lazy fat*****es that give themselves diabetes or need a triple bypass for their blocked arteries? I pay for all those idiots' treatment too. I demand a refund. Make them pay for it themselves.
*I don't really think that, but if that's the logic they're going to push, they should know how it would play out.

I hope the guy you're responding to doesn't have any hobbies that some would claim is dangerous. You know, like owning and using firearms and such.

[TrappedinCalifornia]

You mean like every other medical thing? How about we apply this logic to lazy fat*****es that give themselves diabetes or need a triple bypass for their blocked arteries? I pay for all those idiots' treatment too. I demand a refund. Make them pay for it themselves.
*I don't really think that, but if that's the logic they're going to push, they should know how it would play out.

I hope the guy you're responding to doesn't have any hobbies that some would claim is dangerous. You know, like owning and using firearms and such.

To be consistent in that I've pointed this out to another a few times in the recent past... Some of you guys need to do some work on how you post quotes. It comes across as if someone said something they didn't and given how many don't 'read the entire thread,' such feeds on itself.

If you go back, you'll find that "the guy" he's responding to ain't me, despite what it looks like in his post. It's from the OP where I quoted someone else as an example of the mindset which is developing...

...Another from this morning...

How much of this is "bluff," how much is real, and, as suggested in the one piece above, how much of this can actually be done legally vs. how much are they going to try and do, then let the courts "figure it out" is to be determined.

But, it seems we're about to go from "informed" consent to "coerced" consent.

[SPUTTER]

"JUST IN: Southwest Airlines, American Airlines, and Delta Air Lines will NOT REQUIRE employees to get vaccinated, breaking with United Airlines' mandate that workers get vaccinated by October 25th or face getting fired."

https://mobile.twitter.com/petemuntean/status/1425207837203046401

Not sure if true but we'll find out.

[DentonandSasquatchShow]

I have a hard time understanding how you can't see what is going on.

Many of these same people telling you the vaccine is the only thing that can save you are NOT following their own rules/mandates. If they believed what they were saying you can bet they would be following them.

Just a few:

Obama and his birthday party.

Fauci himself hanging out at baseball games with his mask around his chin. Not to mention when this began he stated masks do nothing.

Pelosi getting her hair done while CA was locked down. Not to mention the numerous times I've seen pictures and videos of her not wearing a mask and hugging others behind closed doors.

AOC was caught recently hanging out with a bunch of people mask less for a photoshoot. But when they started taking the pictures her mask went on.

There's video out there, if it hasn't been scrubbed yet, of Biden making a speech and talking about how important it is to wear a mask and blah blah blah. He then puts his mask on to exit the stage and as soon as he gets behind the curtain the mask comes off and he starts hugging and chatting in close proximity with a bunch of people.

There are many other examples. You just have to be brave enough to look and not trust daddy government has your best interest in mind.

[TrappedinCalifornia]

"JUST IN: Southwest Airlines, American Airlines, and Delta Air Lines will NOT REQUIRE employees to get vaccinated, breaking with United Airlines' mandate that workers get vaccinated by October 25th or face getting fired."

https://mobile.twitter.com/petemuntean/status/1425207837203046401

Not sure if true but we'll find out.

True or not, it hints at what this is going to take.

I've never downplayed the potential involved with this virus. I've also never insisted that we change society, that people blindly and unquestionably comply with Government edicts, and I've resisted the mania of... "we're all gonna die if" vs. "none of us is gonna die because"... that's swept the media and so many Internet forums. Instead, what I have said, from the beginning, is that this is going to end up akin to how we deal with the flu in that, as a relative of those viruses, 'herd immunity' is unlikely to be achievable, vaccines are going to be similar to flu vaccines in their efficacy, and the virus is likely going to be endemic.

Unless and until individuals and businesses (which are concerned with CYA from a legal/financial standpoint) begin adopting a similar attitude by focusing on mortality/hospitalizations rather than simply cases and start pushing back on Government edicts/chivying, COVID (or the next 'virus') will continue to be used as the rationalization for many agenda-achieving machinations.

Make the choice which seems best for you. Allow others the same. Let the mania and the resultant hysteria exhibited by both sides abate. When you do, coercion becomes significantly less effective or even possible.

[PizzaPizza]

https://www.frontpagemag.com/fpm/2021/08/1938-first-they-came-unvaccinated-wayne-allyn-root/