so not even sure what I should say or do about this. Requiring me to have a covid vac

[CessnaDriver]

That sucks. I'm sorry for you.
Hope my work doesn't do this.
They warned people to not go asking others about getting the shot. So I took that as a good sign, but who knows. I'm not worried about not having the damn shot or not wearing a damn mask. Let us take our own "risks" on that.

[cbsdd00]

I think we work for the same company.

[Gundiver]

https://costumekingdom.com/images/product/medium/bin-laden-missle-head-terrorist-mask.jpg

[TrappedinCalifornia]

Source?

The 'experimental' part could be considered valid based on the EUA as opposed to actual "approval."

...An Emergency Use Authorization (EUA) is a mechanism to facilitate the availability and use of medical countermeasures, including vaccines, during public health emergencies, such as the current COVID-19 pandemic. Under an EUA, FDA may allow the use of unapproved medical products, or unapproved uses of approved medical products in an emergency to diagnose, treat, or prevent serious or life-threatening diseases or conditions when certain statutory criteria have been met, including that there are no adequate, approved, and available alternatives...

COVID-19 vaccines are undergoing a rigorous development process that includes tens of thousands of study participants to generate the needed non-clinical, clinical, and manufacturing data. FDA will undertake a comprehensive evaluation of this information submitted by a vaccine manufacturer.

For an EUA to be issued for a vaccine, for which there is adequate manufacturing information to ensure quality and consistency, FDA must determine that the known and potential benefits outweigh the known and potential risks of the vaccine...

In short, it means there are still evaluations being done and regardless of how many 'studies' that included however many individuals, the evaluation process continues to be... incomplete. Thus, use of the word 'experimental' is justified for many in that final conclusions have yet to be determined and it's something which is difficult to argue with, no matter how 'promising' the results thus far.

Now, that's not just my, personal interpretation. Business Insider has a piece entitled... Here's why a surprising number of healthcare workers are rejecting COVID-19 vaccines despite having witnessed the immense suffering of the pandemic . One particular passage notes...

...But mandating coronavirus vaccines is more complicated, as the Food and Drug Administration has authorized them for emergency use rather than giving them full approval, so they are still considered experimental...

So, by dint of the approval process, the vaccines are still considered 'experimental' in that they have not completed the necessary process. Does that make them 'dangerous?' Not necessarily. However, neither does it necessarily make them entirely/mostly 'safe' (yet) by FDA's own process.

One source for the 'death' numbers would be the CDC itself...

...Over 259 million doses of COVID-19 vaccines were administered in the United States from December 14, 2020, through May 10, 2021. During this time, VAERS received 4,434 reports of death (0.0017%) among people who received a COVID-19 vaccine. CDC and FDA physicians review each case report of death as soon as notified and CDC requests medical records to further assess reports. ...

Just like how many questioned the validity of the numbers of death caused by COVID, there is some lack of transparency with regard to the numbers of death caused by the vaccine. The idea is that if you can be killed by a bus hitting you and a test shows you had COVID in your system, making your demise count as a "COVID fatality," then questions arise for some over the idea that being 'healthy' prior to receiving the vaccine and dying soon thereafter is "totally unrelated" to the vaccine.

It all boils down to the same questions Tucker Carlson keeps asking...

• If you've been vaccinated and accept that the vaccines are as effective as claimed, then why worry about being around the unvaccinated?
• If the vaccines are as 'readily available' as is claimed, then why the push for a one-size-fits-all approach; i.e., there are legitimate reasons NOT to get the vaccine, reasons which have been broached by the manufacturers themselves?

While the media focuses primarily on the more 'extreme' conspiracy theories, they tend to pass over a few, legitimate concerns...

• Normally, vaccines take years to develop based on the need for thorough testing and evaluation; yet, these were in development for only 6 months and the data is, in many respects, incomplete, regardless of the claims based on the initial test groups.
• There is simply no way to know the long-term implications in that not only the vaccines, but the virus itself have only been around a short time.
• With the 'breakthrough' infections being reported, there is some concern that the real-world efficacy rate may not reflect those rates claimed from the test groups.
• It has yet to be established whether this will be a "one and done" vaccine or whether it will require annual boosters much like the flu shots; where many individuals have carried forward successfully without ever having gotten a "flu shot."

The list goes on insofar as "unanswered questions." Are they sufficient rationale for avoiding the vaccine, at least at this time? It depends on who you ask and that, again, is the point.

Here is an opinion piece from just over a month ago...

...Among those who believe that EUA vaccines cannot be mandated, the best two arguments are a legal argument and a policy one. The legal argument is that the law setting out the requirements for emergency use authorization contains language requiring the Secretary of Health and Human Services to ensure that people know they can refuse or accept the vaccine. The same language requires the informational materials

As a number of more 'conservative' media outlets have noted, Biden was among the 'first' to be vaccinated, yet he continued to run around not only with a mask, but with a double mask, well beyond the "two-week" period recommended to allow the vaccine to work within your system. If Biden and his advisors didn't have doubts regarding the vaccines, then why would they do that? If you claim it was to 'set an example,' then you have to acknowledge that they weren't providing much of an incentive to be vaccinated in that, in essence, they were saying that vaccination "changes nothing." Which is why, now, many feel the change to the CDC guidelines regarding masks were 'necessitated.'

Similarly, for those who have had COVID-19 and feel the 'immunity' imparted naturally from that should be sufficient (some claiming it is even 'better'), the response of public health officials that they should still be vaccinated is hardly 'starkly reinforced' by the... uh... 'empirical' reasoning they proffer...

Small number? We don't know? A small chance? Still studying?

So... Just do it? That's hardly definitive or empirical evidence for many.

In the end, those demanding absolute, empirical evidence otherwise it's 'conspiracy theory' are just as 'out of touch' as the more extreme conspiracy theorists. No matter how much objective 'proof' is provided, from either side, there will be deniers of that 'proof' and, due to how muddled the messaging has been, there are legitimate reasons for both sides to be skeptical. Which is precisely why the choice to be vaccinated or not, I personally feel, should be left to the individual and not the Government nor an employer... at least at this juncture as there is no, firm consensus among the legal experts or the medical profession as to the legality or the necessity.

[uzigalil]

so just as the title says, my work is requiring me to show proof of me being fully vaccinated, and I say that in air quotes, so that I can take my mask off at work. Otherwise I have to muzzle myself because I'm so dangerous and potentially infectious apparently. I don't know if this is something I can get a class action lawsuit against work, or what I would need to do but I think it's absolutely awful that they are trying to split us apart by the definition of whether or not we have had this vaccine. They're also requiring me to give up my hippa rights in order to verify that I have in fact had this ridiculous injection.

you should quit, get a new job.

[nitroxdiver]

[LBDamned]

Well I so stand by my convictions I will neither get the vax nor wear a mask, how's that?

I stand beside you with same conviction.

[SPUTTER]

Sit it out and in a couple of years you'll thank God you did.

[sd_shooter]

Print a covid vax card on thick stock and fill it out with information from some bozo who got the shot. You'll need a batch number for the drug.

[yoteassasin]

Print a covid vax card on thick stock and fill it out with information from some bozo who got the shot. You'll need a batch number for the drug.

Boom .. this . Just tell the lemmings you are vaxinated .... btw is that even the correct term ? I hear it doesn't stop you from getting da covid , just makes your symptoms less. And potentially gives you shingles, and bells Palsy , and maybe a brain annurism ..

[Moemoe1]

[bombadillo]

you should quit, get a new job.

unfortunately easier said than done where I'm at. I would need a job that would pay somewhere between 75 and a hundred thousand a year in Idaho which is very tough to get right now. If I could get some kind of a tech job which I'm probably really not qualified for I could do it. If I could get a sales job which I am very qualified for and I'm very good at sales I could do it remotely based out of another state that pays better. I'm paid very well for what I do and it would be a very tough move after having been with this company for 16 years.

[ACfixer]

I stand beside you with same conviction.

unfortunately easier said than done where I'm at. I would need a job...

I'm a pretty straight laced guy these days OP, I do my best to obey the law and keep my side of the street tidy. But they have crossed a line here and just speaking for myself, what I would do in your situation is one of the following in order of my preference.

1. Print out a real-looking fake vax card.

2. A combination of being a member of the Higher Festus of the Westus Holy Diety (that cannot vax or eat mayonnaise due to religious reasons) and a doctor's note saying you cannot wear a mask because you have cystic ventricular microsis. In other words, bullschitt your way through it.

3. Wear a mask and buy some time while you consult a lawyer and/or search for another job.

4. Quit that job and practice asking if I want fries with my meal.

5. Just get the jab. It's probably okay to do so, we just don't know for sure. That's the last choice for a reason, I don't want to do it.

Let us know how this works out for you please.

[Gundiver]

[71MUSTY]

The problem is them saying "fine, then wear a mask."

Pretty soon they will use masks to identify us non-vax'd infidels.

Exactly. Many medical facilities are now dropping the mask mandate for employees who have been Vaxed but others are not allowed on campus without a mask.

FWIW HIPPA does not give you "rights". Hippa only protects you from people with your medical information disclosing it to third parties without your permission. So your boss can ask. You can refuse to provide proof of Vax but they can then require you to mask up or worse.

They just can't disclose your medical information to a third party.